Patching holes on a Leica LTM - Any suggestions?

[p.giannakis]

I can't think of another camera in my camera collection that needs a service more desperately than my Leica IIc. I haven't used it for more than 3 years now due to some holes on the one curtain.

So I opened it up tonight. This is what the one curtain looks like.

The other curtain is in much better condition. Now shining a flash light it looks a lot like this:

I decided to use ivory black oil paint as people suggested on this forum. I decided against liquid electrical tape as rubber has a significant weight and i didn't want to slow down the curtain with the extra weight. So now looks a lot like this:

Any ideas or suggestions what else to have a look at since i am in there?

 

[Erik van Straten]

Clean the cloth first with naphta petrol. Smear the paint very thin into the cloth, not a layer on the cloth. A layer on the cloth will crack. Do not use very oily paint, but paint that contains enough pigment so the layer will be light tight. Several thin layers is better than one thick one. Oil paint dries slowly, it will take two weeks at least. Put a new layer on the cloth only when the first layer is completely dry. The cloth must remain supple. Good luck.

Erik.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Replace the curtains. They're covered in fungus that will damage the camera and lens.

 

[p.giannakis]

Thanks Erik. I'd like to think that it is a very thin layer that i put. I will leave it to dry - i am surprised to hear that it will take a couple of weeks, i thought it will dry overnight.

In all honesty, the curtain is in pretty sad state, let's see for how long it will last.

 

[p.giannakis]

Replace the curtains. They're covered in fungus that will damage the camera and lens.

Yes, i think this is the only proper option but until funds become available, i will try to use it this way.

 

[Erik van Straten]

You can find shutter material on eBay. Maybe Nobbysparrow in Japan. It is not very expensive.

Oil paint dries slowly. It is linseed oil.

Erik.

 

[p.giannakis]

You can find shutter material on eBay. Maybe Nobbysparrow in Japan.

Erik.

Replacing a shutter curtain is way beyond my repair skills. I prefer to have Alan Starkie to do it.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Then it will be expensive, maybe more expensive than another camera. You can try the oil paint first and save up some money for a repair or another camera. That is what I would do.


Erik.

 

[p.giannakis]

Then it will be expensive, maybe more expensive than another camera. You can try the oil paint first and save up some money for a repair or another camera. That is what I would do.

Erik.

I will do. I think a serviced camera that works well is a better option than a new camera with unknown service history.

 

[mconnealy]

That's the first time I've heard of using oil paint to patch shutter curtain pinholes. I've used black fabric paint available at craft stores for that purpose to patch quite a few Soviet camera shutters. It dries in a few hours and I have never had to repeat the application.

 

[peterm1]

"I decided to use ivory black oil paint as people suggested on this forum."

I do not know who would use any paint, as such (unless "ivory" black paint is an exception). Every oil based paint I know of hardens and becomes rigid. That is not what you need on cloth shutters in my view. When I have repaired cloth shutters I have used thinned coats of liquid electrical tape or for one shutter that had cracks in it rather than holes, I have used Pebeo fabric paint (black color) - the kind used for marbling fabric which is flexible - a little rubbery, and fairly opaque (though several coats might be needed). It is too thin to work for actual holes though it worked fine on the cracked rubber coat of an existing shutter. http://en.pebeo.com/Creative-leisure/Painting-on-Fabric/Marbling. All such products can take quite a few days to dry. Keep your shutter un-cocked till then as it could glue the shutters together when it is wrapped about the spool.
I have also seen cloth shutters that have been patched with another piece of cloth from a discarded camera's shutter. Just make the patch rounded so there are no sharp corners to catch and start the patch becoming detached. And use a thin coat of flexible glue.

 

[Rob-F]

Replace the curtains. They're covered in fungus that will damage the camera and lens.

Yes. One look at that curtain is enough to convince me that it's time for a new one!

 

[p.giannakis]

Thanks guys, I will wait for it to dry and test it to see how it works. I will report back.

 

[Malcolm M]

Yes, i think this is the only proper option but until funds become available, i will try to use it this way.

You are the custodian of a classic camera. Nothing else has a higher priority. Give up on food for a few weeks. Have you no children you can sell?

 

[peterm1]

You are the custodian of a classic camera. Nothing else has a higher priority. Give up on food for a few weeks. Have you no children you can sell?

.....................for medical experiments?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddN6WHBmBmI

 

[Joao]

Black fabric paint

Black fabric paint

Another ppositive experience with black fabric paint.

A thin layer on each side of the curtain and letting it dry for 24 hours cured a few pinholes in my FED-2.
The curtains are still lightproof after several years. No cracks or visible fissures on the painted areas.
These painted areas on the curtains look quite strange and they probably will decrease the value of the camera if you want to sell it.

Good luck

João

 

[Erik van Straten]

I do not know who would use any paint, as such (unless "ivory" black paint is an exception). Every oil based paint I know of hardens and becomes rigid.

You guys have never been in a museum I suppose. When very thick applied, it will crack, but otherwise linseed oil paint is the best in the world. There are paintings made with linseed oil on canvas 600 years ago that still look like new.

Linoleum is used as carpeting. Immensly strong.

The only problem with oil paint is that it dries slowly (drying time depends on the pigment used). The consistency should be buttery, not runny and oily. It should be rubbed into the silk and not a layer on it. If it is not light-tight all at once, it must be repeated.

When smeared thinly into the shutter material (silk) - and not as a layer on the material - it is much better than rubber.

My Nikon S2's have painted shutter curtains too. No rubber at all. That is why they are so good.

Erik.

 

[peterm1]

You guys have never been in a museum I suppose. When very thick applied, it will crack, but otherwise linseed oil paint is the best in the world. There are paintings made with linseed oil on canvas 600 years ago that still look like new.

Linoleum is used as carpeting. Immensly strong.

The only problem with oil paint is that it dries slowly (drying time depends on the pigment used). The consistency should be buttery, not runny and oily. It should be rubbed into the silk and not a layer on it. If it is not light-tight all at once, it must be repeated.

When smeared thinly into the shutter material (silk) - and not as a layer on the material - it is much better than rubber.

My Nikon S2's have painted shutter curtains too. No rubber at all. That is why they are so good.

Erik.

Do you mean art galleries with paintings like this? This one is pre Rafaelite so much less than 600;years old. Pretty well every old painting has craquelure. So much so it is being studied as a reliable way of identifying art frauds.

The problem seems to be that cracking is a function of thickness of the paint. If paint is thick on a flexible substrate it tends to crack when the substrate flexes (as when a shutter is tensioned , possibly). If paint is thin enough to be flexible it runs the risk of not being light tight. I suppose it could work but I am just saying it would not be my first choice.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Why not just use latex paint in the first place? I'm meaning for this stopgap fix. Latex paint pressed into the fabric will remain light tight and flexible. I'm betting the oil paint will become more rigid as the linseed polymerizes and hardens over the next month or so. My oil paintings from school, even those which I thinned the paint greatly with linseed or even turpenoid, all became quite stiff within several weeks.
Phil Forrest

 

[Vince Lupo]

I’ve had great success with a fabric pen, like the kind you’d use to paint/decorate a t-shirt. Marvy and a Tulip are two brands, should be available at any art supply / crafts store. I painted an entire shutter from a Reflex-Korelle (6x6) and it held up just fine. Make sure you get one with a fairly wide tip (like a ‘chisel’ tip). Nice thing about it is that the ink will absorb into the cloth fabric and will maintain flexibility.

I wonder if there is anything you can apply to the fungus to neutralize/kill/eliminate it prior to applying the ink? Like Starbrite?