PBS series "The Vietnam War" by Ken Burns and Lynn Novick

[oftheherd]

Allen,

Thanks for the added clarity. I think Ray my co-worker was there as an advisor in the late 50's. Ray also explained that being a black man in the Marines at that time he was a bit of a novelty. Also Ray explained that he was small for a Marine, and that prior to him serving they enforced a size restriction. I believe Ray said at one time you had to be 6 foot or bigger to be a Marine.

Cal

I don't know about 6' height requirements. But the marines did take black draftees in WWII. I didn't know that myself until I met a man whose father had been drafted in WWII, and into the marines.

 

[oftheherd]

I applied for conscientious objector status and was classified 1A. No COs were allowed by my draft board. My number in the Selective Service lottery was 221. The war was winding down and they didn't call from my state that year (1973). I received a letter from my sister's boyfriend in Vietnam who told me how he had been hooked on heroine which was everywhere, cheap and of exceptional quality. Somehow he managed to kick the habit before returning home.

I saw the first vial of Heroin about Apr 70. I thought it was barbiturates crushed up. That was in Saigon. When I returned about Aug 70, it was already in Quang Tri.

Addiction was so bad, they set up a detox center, in Vietnam. Service members were sent there, cleaned up, and returned to their unit. Not a good way to keep them clean. It was also a requirement after al while that all soldiers had to pass a urine test before leaving country. If they failed, they went to the detox center before being allowed to return to the US.

During Lam son 719 (Laotian incursion), I heard of MPs that took hundreds of vials of heroin from mama-sans along the side of the road from Quang Tri to Khe Sanh, turning it in for destruction.

 

[oftheherd]

the same applied to me, but in the opposite side. watching video footage from american side and insiders' view. for instance, the 1968 offense event is now shown with many aspects that i've not known before. it's also good to have overall view of american society at the same time with the battle field in vietnam. a very good and completed film about vietnam war so far, i would say.

I have always respected your views of Vietnam and the war, from your perspective.

 

[oftheherd]

oh really, i am shocked. that agent orange topic must have been banned in the US i guess.
i would say that until now, the affect of agent orange is still available in vietnam.
link is a photo essay Damir Sagolj with clear captions for your reference, just as a small sample.

https://damir.photoshelter.com/gallery/Agent-Orange/G0000A1f95wSOggU/

Speaking of It is not banned. But it was never a favorite topic of conversation for our government. It took forever for our government to acknowledge and own up to their responsibility for our soldier's exposure to Agent Orange. I myself suffer from diabetes, and have had prostate cancer.

I don't expect any compensation has ever been considered for Vietnamese people, nor ever will.

 

[Out to Lunch]

Newsweek published a review today: Ken Burns's Vietnam: Great TV. Horrible History. http://www.newsweek.com/ken-burnss-vietnam-great-tv-horrible-history-674433

 

[Bike Tourist]

I was due for discharge from the army in Germany in spring of 1962. They were offering us big bonuses if we would re-up and go to Vietnam as "advisors". I don't know of anyone who took them up on the offer. I noticed that the famous picture of the Viet Cong summary execution was not credited. I think it was Eddie Adams, right?

 

[Out to Lunch]

On the life and work of one influential advisor: Neil Sheehan's "A Bright Shining Lie: John Paul Vann and America in Vietnam" for which he won the Pulitzer Prize. Yes, Eddie Adams - who later expressed regret on the unintended impact of his Pulitzer Prize winning picture.

 

[Peter Jennings]

Newsweek published a review today: Ken Burns's Vietnam: Great TV. Horrible History. http://www.newsweek.com/ken-burnss-vietnam-great-tv-horrible-history-674433

It’s telling of the depth of complexity of the war in Vietnam that an 18 hour long series could not cover every detail of the conflict. I can see how historians, like the author of that review, would be disappointed. But still, to the general public, I think the series reveals many facts that were not widely known. I have to say it did leave me wanting to know more.

 

[Out to Lunch]

Agreed. This said, it's not as if Burns had to create his work from the ground-up. Already in 1983, PBS aired the 11 part documentary: "Vietnam a television history", which is accessible on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqKi-SyRA7I&list=PL5yQCH5UM5P4x2FDBLQvDL70byBi1qs3A

 

[airfrogusmc]

I got the feeling that the were showing things and not making conclusions and of course you can't show something so complex in 10 episodes especially if you are trying to show multiple sides.

There is an interesting documentary that covers part of the Kennedy and Johnson era and is about McNamara titled The Fog of War. There are some taped conversations between McNamara and Kennedy that maybe could have been included as well as some of the conversations that were in that documentary with Johnson and McNamara.

I think one aspect that was shown with clarity is how out of touch Westmoreland was especially with how he was using Marines in I Crops. The bases at Khe Sahn and Dong Ha are two examples of not using Marine forces effectively and lots of Marines died because of it.

Also how he was either out of touch or purposely ignoring the realities on the ground.
There is a really good book about the Marine Corps written by Thomas Ricks titled Making the Corps that touches on his miss use of Marines in Vietnam.

 

[Calzone]

I was in college from 67 to 71 and worked my way through as a PJ. I was in the first drawing of the lottery and my number was 76. While on assignment in October 69 I had an accident and did perminate damage to my right ankle and leg. I wound up having to drop out of school in November due to the injury and received my draft notice the week before Christmas.

I reported for my induction physical and testing on January 8th and was told to have all affairs in order and a change of clothes and personal items upon reporting at the induction center. Kids that passed would be put on a bus that day and taken to where they would go through bootcamp.

I took a letter from my orthopedist and my X-rays. I went through the written tests that morning and after "lunch" went through the physical. At my very last station, after all the poking and probing, I stood in my underwear infront of a couple of Dr's. I just had the feeling I was headed to SE Asia until, without even looking up from his paperwork, one Dr said, " Son your 1-Y and can never join or be drafted into the armed forces". I remember vividly losing my composure and jumping in the air and shouting.

The sad thing was, I was the only one out of 100 that didn't get drafted. I remember 7 of the kids couldn't even read and write their own name. I e often wondered how many returned and how many returned with lifelong mental and physical issues. Eventually my 1-Y was reclassified to 4-F.

My cousin died from exposure to agent orange and another friend has rapidly advancing Parkinson's that's believed to be due to agent orange. No one talks about this but what happened to the people of Vietnam? Are there birth defects, cancer, parkinsons, what is the impact on them?

X-Ray,

I met an old man who graduated Julliard at my good friend's guitar shop who upon graduation got drafted. Basically he was a violinist and guitar player, but in boot camp they took note of his innate talent as a marksman and he became trained as a sniper.

He thinks he killed over 300 people, he was dropped behind enemy lines without dog-tags; and when he was taught Akido for self defense, he asked why was he being taught hand to hand combat when he had a rifle, and his instructor said, "You might run out of bullets."

The book "American Sniper" makes claim that Kyle was the most deadly sniper with over 300 kills. Likely or possibly more kills were made by this old man I met, they just never got reported.

One of my co-workers was a navigator on a nuclear ballistic sub loaded with Trident missiles, but who also was a Navy SEAL during the Vietnam War. Zingo got his knickname because he was also a musician and on a gig being a guitar player and singer got volted though the face though a reverse grounded mike. He said his face blew up and it was like getting hit in the face with a tennis racket.

Zingo thought I was in the military, and I asked him why. Zingo said I was the perfect size (meaning mildly muscular, but rather scrawny at 5'10" and around 140-145 pounds) to be a Navy SEAL. When I asked how did he know, he mentioned that he was a Navy SEAL. Zingo was a wirery guy like me.

I learned that bigger men and more muscular men did not have the stamina and endurance required, and that the heavier bulkier bodies worked against men from completing their SEAL training. It also took a certain personality which Zingo also recognized.

Very different today with SEAL Teams. Back then Zingo and his partner basically assassinated people. Zingo was also taught 7 connected deadly moves, and I asked him to teach me. Zingo had reservations because he said once he started he could not stop. He was taught until it became a reflex, and once he started he said he could not stop. He said that he really could not slow it down, but he tried. Basically he still hurt me.

I don't think any documentary could reveal everything that went on. My brother said he had to be careful not to piss anyone off. He was a Buck Sargent and he had worries of having a grenade thrown in his tent, meaning purposeful friendly fire.

It was an ugly war.

Cal