traveler_101
American abroad
Some boards are buzzing over the Pen-F, the newest micro four-thirds camera by Olympus. While some previews are underwhelmed by the cameras specs, this reviewer seems to understand the spirit and potential of the camera:
http://blog.atmtxphoto.com/2016/01/27/the-olympus-pen-f-review/
http://blog.atmtxphoto.com/2016/01/27/the-olympus-pen-f-review/
Archiver
Veteran
That's a nice review. I'm playing with some of my Oly E-M5 raws and getting better results with them than before, so the Pen-F is looking even more tempting now. Oh, be still, my beating wallet.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Underwhelming photos in that review but I like the camera a lot and I'm sure the potential is there. It's a handsome little thing and oozes class in my opinion .. and it's not a Fuji or Sony!
robert blu
quiet photographer
Small camera, small lenses, high quality...interesting and lovely...
robert
robert
Hsg
who dares wins
I admire the look and construction of Pen-F, even though its just an outer shell gloss, which is superficial and superfluous because its m4/3 sensor is small, which means deep dof even when the background, as its in most cases, only distracts from the subject.
Is it twice as 'good' as the Sony a6000? And maybe three times if a costly lens is added to it?
No matter how retro and cool this camera looks, in the end of the day its a digital camera with a small sensor compared to competition... Maybe its biggest competition is Fuji X100T (if you like fuji's baked RAW files and super-slick jpgs).
Is it twice as 'good' as the Sony a6000? And maybe three times if a costly lens is added to it?
No matter how retro and cool this camera looks, in the end of the day its a digital camera with a small sensor compared to competition... Maybe its biggest competition is Fuji X100T (if you like fuji's baked RAW files and super-slick jpgs).
Archiver
Veteran
@Hsg - I'm wondering exactly how much background blur you need, and in what situations? Shooting with fast primes on m43 cameras gives quite decent background blur, unless you want that creamy look where the background is pretty much gone at shorter focal lengths.
Shot with the Panasonic GM1 and Olympus 25/1.8 at f1.8:
GM1 - Bug Eyes From Behind by Archiver, on Flickr
GM1 - Beats [explore 2014 07 05] by Archiver, on Flickr
Shot with the Panasonic GM1 and Olympus 25/1.8 at f1.8:
GM1 - Bug Eyes From Behind by Archiver, on FlickrGM1 - Beats [explore 2014 07 05] by Archiver, on FlickrHsg
who dares wins
Well, here is an example of deep focus destroying the shot. This is a crop.
I saw nice light (not apparent in this compressed and small file) a decent composition, raised my small sensor camera and took a picture, happy that i got a nice image. Later on looking more closely, there is a huge trash can right in the middle of the background, something that I never even saw through the efv.
This and many many other shots of mine are ruined by trash cans because of small sensor deep focus.
robert blu
quiet photographer
@ Hsg: please which focal length and which aperture?
robert
robert
Hsg
who dares wins
Seriously?
Personally I think the white entities, which have engulfed the women, are interesting.
Its an interesting image and I can photoshop the lettering on the trash can but, sharp-eyed photographers will right away notice the mistake.
I don't mind the failure of this image but its a good lesson why there is a reason full frame and fast lenses cost a lot more.
Hsg
who dares wins
It was shot at f5.6 on a Nikon V3 with its 1" sensor.
In full frame terms that is f16 (5.6*2.7=15.12).
The more is in focus, the more clutter to distract from the subject, and with a small sensor, there is no way you can replicate the FF or even APS-C dof without really expensive fast lenses and shooting wide open.
robert blu
quiet photographer
@ Hsg:try to shoot full open. I believe on m4/3 a 25 F 1,8 full open will give an out of focus background.
robert
robert
Huss
Veteran
Indeed. The subject matter is in the mid-distance, where DOF will be deeper with any system, and then the lens is not shot wide open to minimize DOF.
Not the equipment's fault.
Hsg
who dares wins
On one level its a good idea to use a small sensor because you can shoot wide open and still have enough dof to get sharp images with decent shutter speed in low light, but in normal light you're stuck with really deep dof.
A decent M4/3 body such as pen-f with a fast lens is going to cost you the same as a high quality APS-C or even FF camera.
Then there is the issue of dynamic range with small sensors. Dynamic range is the most important aspect of image quality, not because of the ability to shoot in high contrast situations but because of its tonal range. Tonal range is the shades of gray that a sensor can reproduce within its dynamic range. In b&w terms that means the zones.
If you want quality b&w conversions or you want realistic color with pleasing tonality, not to mention shallow dof, large sensors are the way to go.
I like the pen-f looks and I can see the infatuation that it can cause, but then again a digital camera's soul is its sensor.
Life is too short to waste it on over-priced small sensors.
Hsg
who dares wins
of course it was operator error, but in street photography you don't have time to think, while you think the situation has changed and there is no more picture to be taken.
Even if I had shot at f 2.8, the widest aperture of nikon 1 10mm, still that is equal to 27mm @ f8 in FF terms!
Huss
Veteran
Hsg
who dares wins
IMHO, anything longer than 28mm (ff equivalent) is too long for sidewalks in most north american downtown areas.
I like images that captures the people completely without cropping limbs because that is how we mostly see other people, our eyes don't crop. We might focus on the face but our vision is aware of the person's complete body. Secondly, I can't think of a single image, street photography, that I like, which was shot with a long lens. Jay Maisel is the master of long lens street but I find his shots boring and its binocular-vision too cold and distant.
The image with the trash can that i posted, you can see it has a nice look to it because it holds both subjects inside the frame with nice sidelight. If you crop the two even from the tight level, the image loses its pleasing look.
FrozenInTime
Well-known
kbg32
neo-romanticist
The Nikon V3's sensor is smaller then M4/3.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Nice styling cues on that Oly Pen.
Archiver
Veteran
Heck. So Olympus basically made a modern day Leica III? Wonder what the boys in Wetzlar are thinking now.
@Hsg - the 28mm scene you shot won't have much subject separation unless you shoot with at least aps-c and f1.4, or full frame and f2. A Nikon 1" sensor and f2.8 isn't going to cut it with a 27mm equivalent lens.
My examples of the Panasonic GM1 and Olympus 25/1.8 show that subject separation is entirely possible with a m43 sensor and fast lens, albeit at closer range and with a longer focal length.
I know what you mean about tonal variation and dynamic range, and I'm sure most of us do. I do think that a good aps-c sensor has a bit more dynamic range than the contemporary m43 sensor, but that gap is closing fast, and in many situations the difference is negligible. The difference in tonal variance between a full frame sensor and m43 is still quite large, though.
For what you want, you're better off buying a modern aps-c camera like the newly announced Sony A6300 with a fast wide angle lens, or a Sony A7 variant with the Sony 28mm f2. You still might not get the subject separation you want if the background is too close.
Edited to add: you like to capture the entire body, without cropping limbs. I'm wondering if a sufficiently blurred background is possible even with a very fast wide angle lens. Check out what Scott Schuman does with The Sartorialist blog. This is much more in line with what you want, but he uses a full frame Canon DSLR, and the 85mm f1.2, and the 50mm f1.2.
http://www.thesartorialist.com/
@Hsg - the 28mm scene you shot won't have much subject separation unless you shoot with at least aps-c and f1.4, or full frame and f2. A Nikon 1" sensor and f2.8 isn't going to cut it with a 27mm equivalent lens.
My examples of the Panasonic GM1 and Olympus 25/1.8 show that subject separation is entirely possible with a m43 sensor and fast lens, albeit at closer range and with a longer focal length.
I know what you mean about tonal variation and dynamic range, and I'm sure most of us do. I do think that a good aps-c sensor has a bit more dynamic range than the contemporary m43 sensor, but that gap is closing fast, and in many situations the difference is negligible. The difference in tonal variance between a full frame sensor and m43 is still quite large, though.
For what you want, you're better off buying a modern aps-c camera like the newly announced Sony A6300 with a fast wide angle lens, or a Sony A7 variant with the Sony 28mm f2. You still might not get the subject separation you want if the background is too close.
Edited to add: you like to capture the entire body, without cropping limbs. I'm wondering if a sufficiently blurred background is possible even with a very fast wide angle lens. Check out what Scott Schuman does with The Sartorialist blog. This is much more in line with what you want, but he uses a full frame Canon DSLR, and the 85mm f1.2, and the 50mm f1.2.
http://www.thesartorialist.com/