Petition Ilford to make bulk 126 film?

[ChrisLivsey]

21/02/11
We would never be able to economically finish to 127 size. Sorry.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

from Apug.org

 

[ChrisLivsey]

Slitting film is not that simple, well the process is it's the effects that arise that make it complex.The action of slitting film introduces stress into the film which may/will show on processing. Anyone who has wrestled with a stubborn reel load will attest to the undesirable results possible. Considerable static would be generated which would attract the debris from the cutting onto the film. Whilst this is tolerable perhaps for an individual or group of friends it cannot be used commercially. The "real' machines are expensive because they address these issues.

It is my understanding from Ilford that the issue is the specialised backing papers required. The minimum orders required are simply too large and the cost too high to make this economic.

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

Oh my God, for some guys, loading a few cassetes from bulk roll is almost too much of an effort...
Why don`t you change your camera ? 70mm backs and hassy old 500C bodies don`t cost a fortune..

 

[68degrees]

Where is "around here?"

Tampa

For the index perfs you'd need to find the specification from Kodak (it's certainly in their archived catalog) on spacing, size and type of perf.[/qote]

I don't have access to that, do you know the title of that publication? More information? Couldnt I jsut measure the holes on center?

The film cutter I used was ancient and fully manual with two cranks, one for the takeup, one for the supply. It was about 2.5ft long and 1.5ft wide. It was a precision cutter made specifically for cutting and spooling photographic film but there are all sorts of cutting machines out there made to accurately cut acetate and mylar which could be modified and used.

Sounds wonderful. The ones I saw on ebay only crosscut the film to length not rip it to width. Ill keep looking. Id love to find one and make some of this 126 for the lomo retro crowd.

Realistically, you could build such a machine easily, just look around and get creative.

Easily? You build it, Ill buy it from you. I think about it all the time, I thought about making a machine that would perf it with a modified projector or movie camera of some kind.

If 70mm isn't available (it's expensive, yes but the perf is built-in on one side) then you could use 120/220 and try to perforate it yourself.

Ive thought about that too. Most of it would go to waste as it is not wide enough for two strips of 126.

If you are really bent on making photos with this camera and don't want 135 perfs, you might just try to cut a pattern from some onion-skin, transfer the pattern to a piece of plexiglass, use that as a template to cut some 4x5 sheet film (for it's rigid substrate for flatness,) tape that to your film gate and shoot the camera as a single shot like folks used to shoot 2x3 plates.

Walk around with a changing bag, to unload and reload. That would definitely be a conversation starter. A short conversation.

Get creative, that's what camera hacking is about. It's getting in touch with your mad scientist mechanical engineer. Making all this gadgetry, exposing and making a final print is so much more satisfying than simply buying film and exposing it. You have a story of the journey to go with the images.

Finally someone understands me.

 

[68degrees]

and whats the problem with backing paper. They make it for 120 so whats the deal?

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Tampa

I don't have access to that, do you know the title of that publication? More information? Couldnt I jsut measure the holes on center?

Kodak kept the best records on the planet regarding all their photographic everything and it is all available online. Google is your friend.

Sounds wonderful. The ones I saw on ebay only crosscut the film to length not rip it to width. Ill keep looking. Id love to find one and make some of this 126 for the lomo retro crowd.

You need to think of how much you're willing to invest to get tilm to the "retro crowd" who own and actually want to shoot 126Cartridge cameras. Most folks just stuff in 35mm and like the bleed-over onto the perfs. I guess it's "hip."

Easily? You build it, Ill buy it from you. I think about it all the time, I thought about making a machine that would perf it with a modified projector or movie camera of some kind.

Nope. You're the mad scientist here. If I build you a custom film cutter, you probably won't be able to afford it. Just like if I put 70 hours of work and cutom tooling into making a camera, you're probably not going to like how much it costs. This is part of that investment cost mentioned above. Plus, I have no interest in making such a device when I have my own projects on the burners and have never had an interest in 126Cartridge cameras.

Walk around with a changing bag, to unload and reload. That would definitely be a conversation starter. A short conversation.

Buy a 4x5 Graphic or field camera and you'll understand how often you use a changing bag.

Finally someone understands me.

Again, if I understand you, YOU should be the one doing the research and making the things you want, not buying them from someone else. THAT is the story, not handing over a few thousand dollars for a one-off device to cut film for a camera that wasn't that high quality when it was new. Even when film was still available for these cameras people didn't like the format and they were stuffed into the dusty window displays of camera shops or more often thrown away than acutally used.

and whats the problem with backing paper. They make it for 120 so whats the deal?

The paper needs to be cut exactly the same dimension then rolled tightly onto the film. They can't be cut together due to static buildup. There is also a market for 120 film which is still used by amateurs and professionals around the world.

Not trying to be critical but the market has dictated what film has survived and 126Cartridge was essentially dead in the early 90s. Camera manufacturers tried again with APS format but it never took off, being supplanted by high quality pocket digital cameras that were just as good or better than the APS cameras.

Phil Forrest

 

[ChrisLivsey]

and whats the problem with backing paper. They make it for 120 so whats the deal?

I assume the same problem as the film , size is not the same. The iso specifications are not available for free so I can't say if the thickness is the same.

 

[68degrees]

Kodak kept the best records on the planet regarding all their photographic everything and it is all available online. Google is your friend.



You need to think of how much you're willing to invest to get tilm to the "retro crowd" who own and actually want to shoot 126Cartridge cameras. Most folks just stuff in 35mm and like the bleed-over onto the perfs. I guess it's "hip."



Nope. You're the mad scientist here. If I build you a custom film cutter, you probably won't be able to afford it. Just like if I put 70 hours of work and cutom tooling into making a camera, you're probably not going to like how much it costs. This is part of that investment cost mentioned above. Plus, I have no interest in making such a device when I have my own projects on the burners and have never had an interest in 126Cartridge cameras.



Buy a 4x5 Graphic or field camera and you'll understand how often you use a changing bag.



Again, if I understand you, YOU should be the one doing the research and making the things you want, not buying them from someone else. THAT is the story, not handing over a few thousand dollars for a one-off device to cut film for a camera that wasn't that high quality when it was new. Even when film was still available for these cameras people didn't like the format and they were stuffed into the dusty window displays of camera shops or more often thrown away than acutally used.



The paper needs to be cut exactly the same dimension then rolled tightly onto the film. They can't be cut together due to static buildup. There is also a market for 120 film which is still used by amateurs and professionals around the world.

Not trying to be critical but the market has dictated what film has survived and 126Cartridge was essentially dead in the early 90s. Camera manufacturers tried again with APS format but it never took off, being supplanted by high quality pocket digital cameras that were just as good or better than the APS cameras.

Phil Forrest

haha you said it was easy. Easy until you are asked for details. hehe

 

[ChrisLivsey]

I assume the same problem as the film , size is not the same. The iso specifications are not available for free so I can't say if the thickness is the same.

I had forgotten I had this link:

Exeter paper used for animation is often quoted as suitable:

http://www.cartooncolour.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=302

Also the sizes required for various backings is here:
http://www.realtime.net/~donday/photo/paper-lengths.html

You may also glean some help from the patents available:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=ddtnAAAAEBAJ&dq=US+patent+3138081

 

[Phil_F_NM]

haha you said it was easy. Easy until you are asked for details. hehe

I can picture what I'd need to do in my mind and I'd know what parts I'd use. That is the creative part which you have to come up with. You need a supply spool, takeup spool for the stock and for your spooled film (unless you would be throwing the excess away), a clutch to keep tension, a very flat, smooth surface and an extraordinarily sharp blade in a fixed but adjustable carrier. You didnt' ask for details, you asked for a finished product.

Phil Forrest

 

[68degrees]

..you asked for a finished product.

Phil Forrest

only to call you out because you said it was so easy, when I know it isnt. It is easy to conceptualize, working at the speed of thought is fun. The devil is always in the details though and locating the information is time consuming re inventing the wheel process. Thats why I like to consult with others who know and are interested, its the best research you can do. Posers need not apply.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

only to call you out because you said it was so easy, when I know it isnt. It is easy to conceptualize, working at the speed of thought is fun. The devil is always in the details though and locating the information is time consuming re inventing the wheel process. Thats why I like to consult with others who know and are interested, its the best research you can do. Posers need not apply.

It depends upon what your definition of easy is, I suppose.
As for the research, Google is your friend. Posers need not apply but with custom made machinery such as this, if you are the one who wants it, you are the one who has to do the legwork and the research. I nor anyone else will hold your hand while you do it. There is a difference between consulting with others when bouncing ideas around and just asking directly for all the information you need. That's just handing your research off to someone else who is going to have to do the same legwork. You don't want to reinvent the wheel but if you don't know where to look for wheel bearings when someone isn't around to tell you, what will you turn to? Once you dig a little into researching these arcane products for even more arcane projects, it gets far easier for the next time.

If I had the interest in this project, I could have it done in a weekend, given the space to work, materials to work with and using tools I already own.
I have other things to do but hope that if you choose to go ahead with cutting your own film for 126Cartridge and reloading it, you actually get to do it and make some photos to share.

Phil Forrest

 

[68degrees]

It depends upon what your definition of easy is, I suppose.
As for the research, Google is your friend. Posers need not apply but with custom made machinery such as this, if you are the one who wants it, you are the one who has to do the legwork and the research. I nor anyone else will hold your hand while you do it. There is a difference between consulting with others when bouncing ideas around and just asking directly for all the information you need. That's just handing your research off to someone else who is going to have to do the same legwork. You don't want to reinvent the wheel but if you don't know where to look for wheel bearings when someone isn't around to tell you, what will you turn to? Once you dig a little into researching these arcane products for even more arcane projects, it gets far easier for the next time.

If I had the interest in this project, I could have it done in a weekend, given the space to work, materials to work with and using tools I already own.
I have other things to do but hope that if you choose to go ahead with cutting your own film for 126Cartridge and reloading it, you actually get to do it and make some photos to share.

Phil Forrest

The best way to do research is to interview and meet people who ALREADY KNOW and want to share their knowledge and experience. That's what discussion forums are for. Sharing and leveraging knowledge and experiences. I know Im always happy to share mine as well. This isn't for people who want to get on here and pretend they are more important than they are, denigrate, condescend, talk down to others, etc etc. The other purpose of this forum is to create content that can be indexed by search engines to drive traffic to RFF so people who have no forum to belong to will find us and join. Basic concept. I shouldnt have to explain this.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Basic concept. I shouldnt have to explain this.

Of course. That wasn't condescending at all.

Phil Forrest