Petition Kodak to Bring Back Plus-X

[Al Patterson]

Ah, a shot from Durango. Was there in 2004. Neat place. I shot some Ilford XP 2 in the rain.

 

[steveyork]

Lucky me -- I still have 4 bricks in the freezer. Such an iconic film.

 

[Bingley]

I've been searching for a replacement for Plus-X. TMax 100 is a great film and I use it a lot but it gives a different look. I tried FP4+ and it was not "it." Fomapan 100 comes closer. Will give Adox Silvermax a try.

 

[Mcary]

Well, it goes something like this. You know how they make some beer seasonally? Like October dark beer, and so on. Some beers are made all the time, while some are made from time to time. Maybe they could make film like that.

What would be wrong with running a batch of Plus-X for a few weeks. Customers have to grab it when they can. Perhaps we could pre-order it, and the size of the run could depend on the orders placed at the time. If you don't get your order in, you have to wait until the next batch.

When the Plus-X run is over, then they could run Panatomic-X. And how about an occasional run of Verichrome Pan? Remember it? It was a good film!

It has been said that once the production of a film is discontinued, it's hard to make it exactly the same again when going back into production. Maybe so, but Efke/Agfa/Adox seem to have managed, and I'm sure Kodak could if anyone could.

And If the film comes out a little different each time, maybe that's not so bad. I like George DeBoeuf Beaujolais Village. The 2012 may not be the same as the 2011, but it's close enough, and I still buy it. And if the 2013 "vintage" Plus-X has a subtly different palette than the 2006, we'll all buy it just so we see how it's different--or isn't different.

So what do you think?

Think that if you were able to put together a prepaid order of say $200,000 dollars along with a place to store and a mean to distribute the film Kodak might be will to do a run for you.

 

[Clint Troy]

I've been searching for a replacement for Plus-X. TMax 100 is a great film and I use it a lot but it gives a different look. I tried FP4+ and it was not "it." Fomapan 100 comes closer. Will give Adox Silvermax a try.

Fomapan 100 is a very nice film, a "mini Tri-X" somewhat.
FP4 is marvelous! But not similar to Plus-X at all.

The closest I ever got to Plus-X was with Neopan SS. It was almost similar!! But the problem is that it's discontinued 🙄

 

[sepiareverb]

Will give Adox Silvermax a try.

Silvermax is somewhat between Plus-X and TMAX 100 in look. Actually I'd peg Silvermax as looking an awful lot like fresh Panatomic-X, not the ancient stuff that is still around. I'd suggest Rodinal over the dedicated developer if you're aiming for a Plus-X look.

ORWO UN54 is a really wonderful replacement for Plus-X that I've been using a lot lately. Still trying developers on this stuff, but Perceptol and UN54 is the closest to Plus-X I've ever found.

UN54 @ 100 in Perceptol 1:1


Like all movie film there is the occasional speck, but less than on the Efke 100 I used to shoot, and far tighter grain. Very nice base also, it stays very flat.

I always found the FOMA films to be rather grainier than other films of comparable speed. Useful at times, but when I'm after grain in the sun I find the Efke 100 more pleasing (while it lasts). I gave the FOMA films a good long try, but ended up preferring the movie film emulsions when cheap is the motive.

 

[meanstreetshooter]

I voted for the Plus-X because I like the film. I'm down to just a few rolls which will be saved for some special event.
But it probably won't come back into production.

 

[tunalegs]

I agree.
Plus-X can be easily replaced by other films. I've replaced it with Adox Silvermax, which gives me even better results in every respect.
An when I need even better detail rendition, e.g. for higher enlargements from 35mm, I use Ilford Delta 100.

Best replacement for Kodak Elite Chrome:
Provia 100F and AgfaPhoto CT Precisa (which is made from Provia 100F batches) in combination with a Skylight 1A or 1B filter.
We've done some blind tests with original Elite Chromes and Provias with filter: Most of us from our photo club have not been able to distinguish the shots saying which ones are the Kodaks, and which ones are the Fujis with filter.

Cheers, Jan

Good to know. 🙂

 

[Rob-F]

Well, I have 36 rolls of 35mm, and 5 rolls of 120. I'm gonna shoot some of it on steam locomotives this summer!

 

[KM-25]

You forgot a box to check...The one that says:

Please don't listen to these pleas to bring back films that sat around and went out of date because they did not sell enough, costing you hundreds of thousands a year in lost profits, these poor souls have no idea how lucky we are to have the films we still do at a cost that is barely above the rate of inflation.

Can you put that one on there please because as a professional who is going to continue to depend on great films like Tri-X, TMX and TMY, I don't want people who are unable to see clearly ruining it for the rest of us who have a grip on reality!

People REALLY don't get it at all, do they!!!

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

Can you put that one on there please because as a professional who is going to continue to depend on great films like Tri-X, TMX and TMY, I don't want people who are unable to see clearly ruining it for the rest of us who have a grip on reality!

Which reality would that be?

:angel:

 

[KM-25]

Which reality would that be?

:angel:

The one you opted not to quote, meaning that films like Tmax and Tri-X sell well enough to not often become short dated, so we as film users ought to be actually using more of them, not pining for films that did not sell enough so they got axed.

There is far too much complaining about what we have lost rather than actual photography going on from many film users, mostly older folks who don't understand how economies of scale work, thinking that companies like Fuji, Ilford and Kodak should keep coating huge master rolls of films like Plus-X for them so that they can shoot their 30-50 rolls a year.

No one can predict the future but I can almost garantee you that we are going to have less films to choose from and the prices will go up so you have to be realistic, sensible, put your self in the shoes of the companies who make this stuff and plan accordingly.

Creating petitions for films like Plus-X, Techpan, HIE and god knows Kodachrome are not doing any of us any good.....it actually makes us look bad when you consider great photographers like HCB used one film like Tri-X throughout their entire life.

At some point, people have got to wake up to the reality that these companies are already going well above and beyond to keep these products in our hands and when they say they can no longer offer a film like Plus-X or in Ilford's case, offer film in 220....they are not joking, they can not do it without risking the health of the financial engine that allows us to have any film at all, period!

 

[jsrockit]

The one you opted not to quote, meaning that films like Tmax and Tri-X sell well enough to not often become short dated, so we as film users ought to be actually using more of them, not pining for films that did not sell enough so they got axed.

There is far too much complaining about what we have lost rather than actual photography going on from many film users, mostly older folks who don't understand how economies of scale work, thinking that companies like Fuji, Ilford and Kodak should keep coating huge master rolls of films like Plus-X for them so that they can shoot their 30-50 rolls a year.

No one can predict the future but I can almost garantee you that we are going to have less films to choose from and the prices will go up so you have to be realistic, sensible, put your self in the shoes of the companies who make this stuff and plan accordingly.

Creating petitions for films like Plus-X, Techpan, HIE and god knows Kodachrome are not doing any of us any good.....it actually makes us look bad when you consider great photographers like HCB used one film like Tri-X throughout their entire life.

At some point, people have got to wake up to the reality that these companies are already going well above and beyond to keep these products in our hands and when they say they can no longer offer a film like Plus-X or in Ilford's case, offer film in 220....they are not joking, they can not do it without risking the health of the financial engine that allows us to have any film at all, period!

Wow, harsh but necessary. KM-25 has the right attitude about film. Be greatful for what you have left and look towards the future with photos in mind.

 

[KM-25]

Wow, harsh but necessary. KM-25 has the right attitude about film. Be greatful for what you have left and look towards the future with photos in mind.

The harsh part is a combo of 4:30 AM heartburn from my wife's birthday cake+ a couple of beers and my growing frustration that with KPP taking over the film and paper part of Kodak, we stand a chance at keeping some of the very best film EK has ever made....and some people are still not seeing how utterly amazing that is in today's world of digital photography in the new "Freeconomy"...

The glory days of film are gone, but that does not mean what is left is not great product that will not sing loudly in dedicated and talented hands. I look at it like this: If Tri-X were the only film left in the world and I wanted less grain in my prints, I would just shoot a bigger negative, I would adapt....

I'll try not to be so harsh, I am just really excited to see Kodak film products go into the hands of people who very likely at least in part, share our love of film and will do their best to see it stick around....I know key people actually read these forums once Kodak PR posts...so I am protective of that excitement.

 

[HHPhoto]

I see it similar as Dan Bayer.

Of course you could complain and cry a lot that we now have less options than ten years ago.
But on the other hand, I still have now more options in BW than 30 years ago.
At that time in Germany no Foma has been available, no 135 and 120 converted Agfa aerial films (now offered by Maco /Rollei film), no Agfa Copex Rapid and Adox CMS 20 II,
nor Delta 100 and 400 and 3200, no Kodak TMY-2, no BW 400 CN.

If I have the choice between 10 mediocre films from former times, and three excellent current modern films, I definitely choose the second option with the much better films!!

TMY-2 has indeed a bit higher resolution than Plus-X, and that with 4x speed!!
It is the best BW film Kodak has ever produced.

Do I miss Kodachrome?
No. I stopped using it more than 20 years ago because already at that time the E-6 films had surpassed it.
Current Provia 100F is outstanding:
- much better sharpness than Kodachrome
- about 35% higher resolution
- much much finer grain; Provia 100F can be enlarged in projection with no limits; 4 x 6 meters on a screen? No problem with this film
- much more precise and natural color reproduction.

And Provia 400X?
At no time in film history such an outstanding high speed reversal film has been made.
Having this film jewel is more worth for me than 10 of the discontinued older (and often not so good) films!

Let's enjoy what we have!
Let's use it to keep it alive!!!

Cheers, Jan

 

[Mystyler]

I see it similar as Dan Bayer.

Of course you could complain and cry a lot that we now have less options than ten years ago.
But on the other hand, I still have now more options in BW than 30 years ago.
At that time in Germany no Foma has been available, no 135 and 120 converted Agfa aerial films (now offered by Maco /Rollei film), no Agfa Copex Rapid and Adox CMS 20 II,
nor Delta 100 and 400 and 3200, no Kodak TMY-2, no BW 400 CN.

If I have the choice between 10 mediocre films from former times, and three excellent current modern films, I definitely choose the second option with the much better films!!

TMY-2 has indeed a bit higher resolution than Plus-X, and that with 4x speed!!
It is the best BW film Kodak has ever produced.

Do I miss Kodachrome?
No. I stopped using it more than 20 years ago because already at that time the E-6 films had surpassed it.
Current Provia 100F is outstanding:
- much better sharpness than Kodachrome
- about 35% higher resolution
- much much finer grain; Provia 100F can be enlarged in projection with no limits; 4 x 6 meters on a screen? No problem with this film
- much more precise and natural color reproduction.

And Provia 400X?
At no time in film history such an outstanding high speed reversal film has been made.
Having this film jewel is more worth for me than 10 of the discontinued older (and often not so good) films!

Let's enjoy what we have!
Let's use it to keep it alive!!!

Cheers, Jan

I've been guilty of whinging about no more Astia, but I got the roll of 400X I shot this week back today...and I've popped another roll of it in my AF35M. It is truly amazing.

There still seems to be something to cover all the bases I need, I forget that I am spoilt for choice sometimes.

And KM-25...well put.

 

[clayne]

The harsh part is a combo of 4:30 AM heartburn from my wife's birthday cake+ a couple of beers and my growing frustration that with KPP taking over the film and paper part of Kodak, we stand a chance at keeping some of the very best film EK has ever made....and some people are still not seeing how utterly amazing that is in today's world of digital photography in the new "Freeconomy"...

The glory days of film are gone, but that does not mean what is left is not great product that will not sing loudly in dedicated and talented hands. I look at it like this: If Tri-X were the only film left in the world and I wanted less grain in my prints, I would just shoot a bigger negative, I would adapt....

I'll try not to be so harsh, I am just really excited to see Kodak film products go into the hands of people who very likely at least in part, share our love of film and will do their best to see it stick around....I know key people actually read these forums once Kodak PR posts...so I am protective of that excitement.

Nothing harsh at all read from your post, my friend. I'm reading you well loud and clear and I think your insights are pretty dead on in the grand scheme of things.

I'm just glad to keep hitting that silver with light and I appreciate Kodak for what they've given us over the years. Tri-X is an absolute benchmark.

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

The harsh part is a combo of 4:30 AM heartburn from my wife's birthday cake+ a couple of beers

That will jade your view every time. 😀

If the film community really want constance of supply, one option is to follow in the footsteps of The Impossible Project.

Use crowdfunding to build a new line that can do 5000 foot runs economically. Get a core group who are prepared to work for love instead of money. Use a marketing model that encourages enthusiasts to commit to fixed amounts of film per year, in return for whatever incentive you think will work. Get the licences for the emulsions that the sponsors want.

Could it be done? Well, the Impossible team managed it.

 

[tsiklonaut]

Actually I gave a re-run for the film and it reminds me Tri-X 320 a lot in DR and tonality.

The Ride by tsiklonaut, on Flickr

​

Must try some more...

Cheers,
Margus

 

[sepiareverb]

If I have the choice between 10 mediocre films from former times, and three excellent current modern films, I definitely choose the second option with the much better films!!

Well said. I currently shoot a range of seven films regularly, only three or four of which were available to me even ten years ago. And they are all lovely when handled well. I have a great range of tonality and grain and have never been happier with my film choices. Do I maybe miss Neopan 1600? Sure. But I'll get 3200 Delta dialed in when I get back in a big grain mood.