Petition Kodak to Bring Back Plus-X

[paradoxbox]

i'll go ahead and disagree, the glory days of film are not gone, there is a huge resurgence in film usage in urban centers among young people (i.e. 20's and late teens)

take a walk through any major fashionable city these days and you'll see the "hipsters" wearing film cameras and taking lots of photos with them. fujifilm has a profitable line of instant "instax" film along with a set of cameras to use the film in.

kodak's issue was poor management and bad marketing. now there's another chance to capture the market. if they bring back plus-x it should be targeted at people who buy film the most, and the marketing strategy and packaging should be appropriately designed for that market.

young people these days end up using their iphones with special applications to try and emulate the special effects only achievable with film! if a company markets to that market correctly, they'll succeed. LOMOGRAPHY has been very successful with this. purists might hate LOMO but it's a fantastic study in marketing and it's probably the only reason film sales are increasing these days.

 

[jsrockit]

i'll go ahead and disagree, the glory days of film are not gone, there is a huge resurgence in film usage in urban centers among young people (i.e. 20's and late teens)

Huge? Probably not... some, yes. I live in NYC and do see some though.

take a walk through any major fashionable city these days and you'll see the "hipsters" wearing film cameras and taking lots of photos with them. fujifilm has a profitable line of instant "instax" film along with a set of cameras o use the film in.

maybe NYC in not fashionable enough though... 😱

young people these days end up using their iphones with special applications to try and emulate the special effects only achievable with film!

Which leads me to believe the film resurgence isn't as huge as people make it out to be. Don't get me wrong, some people ARE using film and keeping it afloat... BUT there is no huge resurgence.

 

[sepiareverb]

I teach film photography, have for the last 11 years. Five years ago I'd have a third of the class really get into film, nowadays it is only one or two a semester.

 

[gnuyork]

Plus x is my fav B&W film.

 

[paradoxbox]

i strongly disagree.

a simple look at google marketing data will show you that the film market has been heating up and keywords are getting very competitive.

cities all over asia have exploding film usage. look at all of the old rollei and leica cameras being sold online to asian buyers. it's not only japan. people in SE asia are picking up too.

last but not least, all the major film manufacturers saw an increase in film sales last year, and that was with the terrible marketing that all of them have been doing. lomography managed to make a huge business even at a time when film sales at every other company were crashing. lucky film company has managed to create itself a niche market as a supplier of cheap but decent quality film. this despite having two (or three) huge competitors.

it's a kodak marketing failure pure and simple. the markets got smaller and many of them changed / shifted, but they're still there - there was never a need to cut key products at kodak, just a need to re-market and restructure production.

Huge? Probably not... some, yes. I live in NYC and do see some though.



maybe NYC in not fashionable enough though... 😱



Which leads me to believe the film resurgence isn't as huge as people make it out to be. Don't get me wrong, some people ARE using film and keeping it afloat... BUT there is no huge resurgence.

 

[pdh]

all the major film manufacturers saw an increase in film sales last year,

film sales at every other company were crashing.

Which is it?

Because it can't be both ...

 

[Aristophanes]

Which is it?

Because it can't be both ...

Sales $, not volume.

Price increases.

Units are still dropping.

No floor yet.

 

[lawrence]

Plus x is my fav B&W film.

Ditto. And I finished my last roll today 🙁

 

[tsiklonaut]

Posted couple of words about my Plus-X impressions. Glad I have couple of rolls of this nice film left...

 

[lawrence]

Posted couple of words about my Plus-X impressions. Glad I have couple of rolls of this nice film left...

Agree with your comments. Plus-X tones are wonderful, it really was the best all round film for 35mm IMHO and I liked it in stock D76. With the last roll gone I'm moving on to TMY2; the extra couple of stops could be useful and it will be interesting to compare to the 'old school' technology of Plus-X.

 

[biglou]

Technical pan

Technical pan

Technical pan is the one i miss, all others have some equivalent or did not interest me in their time.

 

[sepiareverb]

Agree with your comments. Plus-X tones are wonderful, it really was the best all round film for 35mm IMHO and I liked it in stock D76. With the last roll gone I'm moving on to TMY2; the extra couple of stops could be useful and it will be interesting to compare to the 'old school' technology of Plus-X.

I'd suggest you give Adox Silvermax and ORWO UN54 a try if the TMAX isn't to your liking. I find them much more like Plus-X.

 

[tsiklonaut]

Technical pan is the one i miss, all others have some equivalent or did not interest me in their time.

For similar to Tech Pan you have Rollei ORT25 (the most "technical" when developed with RLC, capable of 300+lp/mm) or ADOX CMS20 (ADOX own special developer for it). Both are about the same "technical" films when developed with the correct developers - virtually zero grain, crazy DR and resolution. CMS 20 claimably even surpasses Techical Pan (400 lp/mm) in usable resolution twice - ADOX CMS 20 is quoted to be capable of 800 linepairs/mm - requires mighty good resolving optics to use the film to its capability, too.

I time-to-time shoot ORT25 and still keep some rolls (and bottle of RLC developer exclusevly for it) for special shootouts since I really like it, but technical films are very limited films for me for obvious reasons.

 

[biglou]

Interesting

Interesting

Does in your experience ORT 25 has a similar spectral response to Tech pan or approaching ?

 

[tsiklonaut]

Does in your experience ORT 25 has a similar spectral response to Tech pan or approaching ?

Definitely not exacly the same spectral response, also Ortho 25 has very low contrast with the RLC developer (and humongous DR) but still has this similar "technical film feel" and you can always increase contrast to your liking.

Maybe try it out and see how it does for you? Rollei Ortho 25 here and RLC developer here. Also you can develop it very contrasty with RHC developer.

I want to try ADOX CMS20 in near-future myself. Some of the results I've seen from others look quite impressive.

 

[lawrence]

I'd suggest you give Adox Silvermax and ORWO UN54 a try if the TMAX isn't to your liking. I find them much more like Plus-X.

Thanks for the tip. I'll give them whirl if TMY2 doesn't work out for me.

 

[HHPhoto]

Hi,

i'll go ahead and disagree, the glory days of film are not gone, there is a huge resurgence in film usage in urban centers among young people (i.e. 20's and late teens)

I would be very happy if there were a huge resurgence in film usage, but in general, unfortunately there is not.
At least not concerning standard photo film. There is a real increase in instant film photography, that is right.
Both Impossible and Fuji (with Instax) are reporting significant increasing sales.

But unfortunately the 'backbone' of film production, amateur color negative film, is still decreasing in its sales.
We need much more marketing for film.
From the manufacturers and the distributors like Freestyle, silverprint, Fotoimpex, Maco and so on.
But instead of doing marketing for film, the people at Freestyle for example concentrate their efforts on killing Foma, with their attack with the new Arista Silver Collection.

And of course we need more support for film from the film shooters themselves:
Look at all the people shooting only BW film, but not colour.Their behaviour is damaging film sales.
And they don't understand that in the long term they are killing BW, too.
Kodak and Fuji need the big color film volume to run their machines at sufficient capacity. With the small volume of niche BW film production that is not possible.
If colour film is dead, then BW is also dead at Kodak and Fuji.
And without the raw material base and distribution infrastructure CN film provides, it will be much more difficult for BW only companies to survive, too.
Don't forget, we've already lost several BW only companies (Forte, ERA, Fotokemika, Kentmere).

kodak's issue was poor management and bad marketing. now there's another chance to capture the market.

That is right.

young people these days end up using their iphones with special applications to try and emulate the special effects only achievable with film! if a company markets to that market correctly, they'll succeed. LOMOGRAPHY has been very successful with this. purists might hate LOMO but it's a fantastic study in marketing and it's probably the only reason film sales are increasing these days.

Unfortunately not. Lomo is not big enough to turn the market alone.
And they currently have big problems, too.
Their growth during the last years have been too fast, and they've got in trouble. They've made some false decisions. Result: During the last months they had to close about ten of their Gallery Stores. They had to reduce their staff from 300 down to 200 employees.
For further details look here
http://www.pdexposures.tv/page/2/ (podcast episode 7)
and here
http://wirtschaftsblatt.at/home/nac...erahersteller-Lomo-muss-Geschaefte-schliessen

Cheers, Jan

 

[HHPhoto]

Sales $, not volume.

Price increases.

Units are still dropping.

No floor yet.

No, in this simple generalisation it is also wrong.
Impossible film and Fuji Instax are in a boom.
BW and professional color film: more or less stable. Some countries see a little increase, some others a little decrease.
CN amateur film: Decreasing.

Cheers, Jan

 

[biglou]

Definitely not exacly the same spectral response, also Ortho 25 has very low contrast with the RLC developer (and humongous DR) but still has this similar "technical film feel" and you can always increase contrast to your liking.

Maybe try it out and see how it does for you? Rollei Ortho 25 here and RLC developer here. Also you can develop it very contrasty with RHC developer.

I want to try ADOX CMS20 in near-future myself. Some of the results I've seen from others look quite impressive.

Thanks a lot, i will try it.

 

[HHPhoto]

Hi Margus,

For similar to Tech Pan you have Rollei ORT25 (the most "technical" when developed with RLC, capable of 300+lp/mm) or ADOX CMS20 (ADOX own special developer for it).

no, both are not a replacement for Kodak Technical Pan.
Because Kodak TP is a film with extended red sensivity.
Rollei Ortho 25 is just the opposite: It is red-blind, no red sensivity at all.
Therefore you get complete different looks from these films.

Adox CMS 20 is not completely red-blind, but less red-sensitive (ortho-panchromatic). It renders red darker than panchromatic films.

If you want a Kodak TP replacement concerning the look, Rollei ATP with its extended red sensivity is an alternative.

If you want high resolution, relative high speed and normal panchromatic sensitization, Agfa Copex Rapid is the right film.

Both are about the same "technical" films when developed with the correct developers - virtually zero grain, crazy DR and resolution. CMS 20 claimably even surpasses Techical Pan (400 lp/mm) in usable resolution twice - ADOX CMS 20 is quoted to be capable of 800 linepairs/mm - requires mighty good resolving optics to use the film to its capability, too.

It is not so difficult.There are lots of photographers who reached the diffraction limit of their lenses at f4 and f5,6 with their prime lenses on this film (250 - 400 lp/mm).
I got it, too. Furthermore there have been test results published by Zeiss, Serger, Ventzke, Antora et al., Parkin, who all got this incredible high resolution with this film.

I time-to-time shoot ORT25 and still keep some rolls (and bottle of RLC developer exclusevly for it) for special shootouts since I really like it, but technical films are very limited films for me for obvious reasons.

Forget RLC (bad stuff for these films).
Use the dedicated Spur developers, or send your films to Germany to Photostudio 13 for BW reversal development. Then you get some very nice BW slides from Agfa Copex Rapid and CMS 20 II.

Cheers, Jan