photoflo one drop my arse!

Thanks for all the different wetting agents. I'll try to see if the stores around here can order any, but I'm not holding my breath. (I had tried to get Ilfotol also, but same luck.) I can't even find distilled water here. I use bottled water to process, but costs force me to use the tap for final rinse, and then I soak in drinking water.

The overnight soak makes it somewhat manageable for Tri-X. I'd rather use Fortepan because it's cheaper and pretty available here, but I'm convinced that its emulsion is a bad mix with whatever's in my water. The drying marks are insanely more profuse on Fortepan. Out of curiosity I might try the alcohol trick or whatever brand of dishwasher additive I can find here, but knowing me, if it works and it came down to using it on an important neg, I wouldn't. I appreciace the help, but I also in a weird way enjoy this silly struggle I'm having.
 
jlw said:
...

Jet-Dry, the dishwasher stuff, is different from dishwasher detergent in that it's also purely a wetting agent, and it's made to serve exactly the same purpose as Photo-Flo: to break up surface tension so the water runs off the dishes in an even film rather than drying in spots. I suppose that if you can't get Photo-Flo, this would be the best substitute -- still, I'd think it would be hard to figure the correct concentration, since it's designed to be dispensed into the vast interior of a dishwasher rather than the small quantity of water you'd use to rinse negatives.

....
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This is the product I was referring to. It comes as a liquid in a small bottle, and used in a dishwasher in "similar" porportions as photo-flo in film rinse applications (i.e., small compared to the quantity of water). I would not use detergent, at all. Wrong application.

:)
 
Use a film leader or spoiled film as a test. Try dishwasher rinse aid in bottled drinking water and look at the results. As said upthread when you find the correct dilution keep the mixture and reuse it many times.
 
FWIW i put a few drops mixed with distilled or de-ionised water ( stuff you you get at garages for old car batteries and kettles etc) into bottle with a spray difusser cap (like the kind you use for spraying plants). Spraying the roll of film prior to putting in the film dryer keeps my negs dust free.

Agfa and tetenol make some anti wetting agents.
 
jlw said:
I'm sure that archival purists would disapprove, although I'm not sure why, but I figure that the risk of damage I'd incur when trying to clean off the glop outweighs whatever risk might be imposed by the alcohol residue.
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Photographic film is basically a clear or semi-clear plastic film with various layers of chemicals added - including the emulsion itself (actually a suspension, but we call it an emulsion by tradition) made of gelatin. That's the same stuff in jello - ground-up horses hooves and various other organic components. It absorbs water on contact, which is what makes it so useful when developing film. I do not know how alcohol, which is a solvent, would react. Perhaps it does no damage at all. I have a hard time imagining that, but I'm sure it is possible; I am no chemist.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
greyhoundman said:
In a hundred years, who cares. :)
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Well, that's my opinion on the archival nature of my negs as well, but others seem quite concerned about how long their negs will last versus how long their digital files will last - like it will matter when both are moldering in a city landfill, which is where they will go five hours after their loved ones pack them off to a nursing home. But we all want to be immortal, so let's pretend the question is valid.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
Subsistitute for Photo Flo? Why? Unless you simply can't get it. I'm still using a bottle with a price tag from a camera shop that closed when Detroit still had a Downtown.
 
If your water is mineral free (soft) a little photo flow should do the trick. In the East Bay(San Francisco) we get Yosemite water which is almost distilled in mineral content. I put a few drops of Photoflow directly into the SS tank with the film on the reels for 30 seconds or so . Then hang the film up to dry using my fingers as squeegees. No scratches, no dust, no fuss, no muss.
One trick I learned years ago is to use the shower as a drying cabinet. But first run the shower for a couple of minutes. The steam will bring down the dust very effectively. I use this technique when I cleaning my digital sensors (horrors!) also or anytime dust control is important. Of course this requires cooperation of the wife but if done last thing before bed the film will be dry in the morning.
When I started developing film 50 years ago in Phoenix the water was very hard. Back then I used Photoflow with some % of isopropal alchohol. It wasn't much like maybe 20%. I think Edwal made a commercial version of the same thing, it was pink I remember. My take on alcholol is, in low % you shouldn't have to worry about it much but, if you don't need it then forget it. It does help if you have nasty water.
BTW bottled water is about the worst stuff you can use to rinse film. It is loaded with minerals..... thats why they call it MINERAL WATER. Remember this, distalled water is not drinking water. Distalled water taste like shit, very flat tasting.
Good luck rinsing

Rex
 
I'm not clear on the original poster's rationale for an overnight soak after development; I wonder if this is the source of some of the contamination he's getting. A short presoak before development seems to work for some people, but I was generally taught to have the emulsion wet no longer than necessary.
As a last resort, you could try boiling water, letting it stand for a day to settle, and then putting it through a filter paper before washing.
Alcohol rinses were used in news labs purely to shorten drying times; it's not a nice thing to do to a negative and you certainly never hear of the large-format artistes doing something like that.
Given that a bottle of Photoflo (or its Ilford/Agfa/Fuji etc) equivalent is pretty cheap and doesn't degrade, there's no reason not to use it. I don't think it falls in the category of chemicals that can't be sent airmail.
 
Everything Joe says is true. As for the alcholol as drying agent, that was part of it, to minimize air and dust time. But it actually seemed to help sheet off some the mineral deposits also. I could be wrong, never used much of it and don't now.
BTW why would anyone want a Photoflow substitute? Its so cheap to use that I wouldnt even consider reusing it.
Rex
 
rvaubel said:
Everything ...
BTW why would anyone want a Photoflow substitute? Its so cheap to use that I wouldnt even consider reusing it.
Rex
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I believe the originator of the thread is having a hard time finding Photo-flo locally. :)



.
 
B&H has it on sale for about $36.00/gal. Thats enough for about 2400 rolls of film. I've been carrying a quart around since about 1969. In the next lifetime I'll buy a smaller bottle.

Rex
 
RayPA said:
I believe the originator of the thread is having a hard time finding Photo-flo locally.
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Not quite, the originator of this thread (yours truly) was rambling on about how the internet is not always right and sometimes it helps reading the directions on the bottle :D :p

The photoflo substitutes came as a side question from someone in indonesia (I think?) who has trouble accessing the stuff.
 
I used to develop film in an area with very hard water, and found distilled water from the school chemistry dept to work fine as a final rinse. Hard spots went away. I also poured this final rinse back into the container for reuse without any problems. Triple-distilled H2O has just a few PPM of dissolved solids - nothing that will show on a negative. The gallon jug of "distilled" water from the drug store should work fine in the darkroom, if not in the chem lab.
 
Sorry about that confusion; it wasn't my intent to hijack the thread. I'm glad Jano was able to find his solution (ahem) by adding two drops instead of one to his Photo-Flo mix.

I'm the one in Thailand who cannot find Photo-Flo or Ilfotol. I can't find distilled water, for that matter. PJs and older photogs up here (I'm in the north, not in Bangkok) tell me to use bottled water. Although, yes, I should be boiling my drinking water and letting it sit overnight to sort of distill it myself.

I tried to find Jet-Dry in the supermarket, but no dice. I'll try the exclusive foreigner markets next, and I have a line on another BKK shop that could prove helpful. And when I do find Photo-Flo, I'm using TWO drops. :)

*rick
 
RayPA said:
I believe you can use a common household dishwashing product, like Calgon (I think) in place of photo-flo. I've never used it, because I have a big supply of photo-flo. Anyone know the product name?


:
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The product is called Jet-Dry. 1-2 drops per liter of distilled water. I would be careful. Dishwashing detergent is alkaline and could cause damage to your negatives if used in too low a dilution.
 
I don't know how long it's been since Detroit had a downtown. Like San Francisco, it keeps going down in the list of larger cities.

But I'm wondering, with all the talk about distilled water, how about using water from a reverse-osmosis filter? My place had one when I bought it, and at least my cat and I think the water tastes far better than the city tap stuff. Of course, taste is not what determines photographic use!!
 
reverse osmosis for washing negatives should be equivalent to distilled water

if you use jet-dry make sure is not ethe type with peroxide or with baking soda in it
 
Pablo,
I actually still have that drawing for a water de-ionizer you made for me a while back. Never got around to putting it together, though...

allan
 
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