Photographer captures bizarre, intimate scenes of Chinese factory life

Colin Corneau said:
Better labour conditions need to be pressed for by the West, to save Chinese workers from explotation but the fact is factory jobs represent a step up for many Chinese citizens...it's more money than a rural farm and a chance at future advancement in the cities. These workers are not gullible or foolish.
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When you have too many spare hands and too few job openings, bargaining power of workers will be weak. No amount of pressure can change the fundamental relationship involved. Forcing higher standards will do little more than drive workers out of factories, into farm life with worse conditions or unemployment. Then you get legalized unions and government-mandated hiring practices, labor protectionism, the whole quagmire the US sank itself into during the 70s and 80s.

I agree that there are some gross violations of health standards and human rights that must be stopped. What's shown here, though, doesn't come close to that.
 
We have the same thing here, it's just not industrialized - it's in agriculture. Same scenario in a crawfish peeling plant or for sugar cane farms. Farm and plant owners bring in H2A workers and are required to house them, pay them a good wage and provide medical coverage or care. These farmers work to get the better employees back, as they are only allowed here 10 months of the year. There's a lot of paperwork to stay within the law. They post the same jobs for locals, but no one wants the work. It's demanding, but pays more than minimum wage. The H2A's choice in life is come here and send money home or stay home and have nothing. Most American's can't even fathom this.

Only perhaps some business owner's who have had to sleep in their car or do without food for a few days waiting for the banking system to catch up.

I'd hire anyone who struggled to get here to work. That's a work ethic.
 
Interesting photo essay, thanks for posting the link. My wife grew up in the PRC, long before it became a capitalist dictatorship. She no longer enjoys traveling back, a sentiment I hear from many ex-pats. They find the ruthlessness that has emerged there hard to bear (along with the pollution).

The bosses want all of us to be in the same position, as illustrated in those pictures - desperate for work, willing to do anything. Thankful for a ten minute break each day.

Here's what the pigs in charge don't have the brains to grasp - once everyone is at this sad level, there will be no one left to buy their precious, shiny stuff. Maybe the pigs will eat each other at that point.
 
YYV_146 said:
These people - difficult though their life is - are infinitely luckier and better-off than those who stayed in the villages. And yet people complain about how "unfair" factory life is.
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I do not know how one can possibly tabulate, compute and then compare experiences of dispossession? Surely even biographical experience does not authorize one to arrogate to oneself the position of competent judge where the multiplicity of others' experiences are concerned. I do realize, however, that today nothing is more fashionable than to presume for oneself such competence.

And as far as experience itself is concerned, morality is often the way people avoid social analysis. There are those who gain experience through the power of money to acquire any experience, and those whose experience is limited to the very small field in which they can sell their human potential as labor.
 
YYV_146 said:
*Sign* This topic comes up again...

Let me just say this, as someone who grew up in China and spent most of childhood in a now-deserted village close to the Russian border, that most people here are riding pretty high horses.

How many of you have ever actually been hungry, as in wondering what day your next hot meal would be? Actually seen peasant life in one of less fortunate nations? These people - difficult though their life is - are infinitely luckier and better-off than those who stayed in the villages. And yet people complain about how "unfair" factory life is.
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Victor, my wife grew up there. While she did not grow up hungry, her parents fell victim to the cultural revolution, especially her dad, and they suffered a lot in some remote village as you describe. How does that justify the abuse of people in the here and now? My wife doesn't think these people are 'lucky'. Truly, are you supposed to be grateful just to be alive, so that the sweat of your labor will give some westerner a shiny toy?

Where's chairman Mao when you need him?
 
zauhar said:
Victor, my wife grew up there. While she did not grow up hungry, her parents fell victim to the cultural revolution, especially her dad, and they suffered a lot in some remote village as you describe. How does that justify the abuse of people in the here and now? My wife doesn't think these people are 'lucky'. Truly, are you supposed to be grateful just to be alive, so that the sweat of your labor will give some westerner a shiny toy?

Where's chairman Mao when you need him?
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Well, if my options were that limited, I would be. And when you have been through similar experiences, you gain immense respect for what they stand for. These are actual people who are working towards what they believe will be a better life - don't forget that.

I was born quite some time after the cultural revolution, and do not deny that the place I am now is in no small part because of China's development, which, less than fortunately, involves some people becoming greatly endowed and some other not. Yet there is little doubt that their opportunities are far greater than ever, and that by working hard it is actually possible for them to lead a comfortable, respectable life. Isn't this what the "American dream" is supposed to be about?
 
noimmunity said:
I do not know how one can possibly tabulate, compute and then compare experiences of dispossession? Surely even biographical experience does not authorize one to arrogate to oneself the position of competent judge where the multiplicity of others' experiences are concerned. I do realize, however, that today nothing is more fashionable than to presume for oneself such competence.

And as far as experience itself is concerned, morality is often the way people avoid social analysis. There are those who gain experience through the power of money to acquire any experience, and those whose experience is limited to the very small field in which they can sell their human potential as labor.
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I only say this because had it been otherwise, they would not be in the factories in the first place. Why endure all of this if it does bring any benefits over the alternative. I quote my experience only to suggest that I have, at some level, insight into the choices they face.

I am not making any judgments beyond this claim. It does seem to me, however, quite judgmental to call out on behalf of their perceived "sufferings".
 
I think it is obvious that these people are taking advantage of their best option in life, as YYV mentioned their other options are certainly pretty dire. I've spent a lot of time in China, speak Chinese etc., I've seen horrifying things - working in a factory is definitely not the worst scenario for the average rural Chinese.

But - if we're to import these people's goods, services, and so on, isn't it only fair that we export our living and labour standards as well? It only requires a small percentage more in retail costs for these folks to live a recognisably comfortable life.
 
noimmunity said:
Quaint, but not born out by the actuality of the garment industry, the agricultural industry, the transport industry, the service industry... or just about any other industry in which precarious, undocumented labor makes vital yet unrecognized and largely un- or undercompensated to the economy. Not to mention that it completely ignores the historical contribution that slavery made to wealth accumulation in the United States.

No, salaried labor with weekends off is not an evolutionary model. Exceptional forms of labor have played a crucial role in unequal development across populations, and continue to do so to this day.
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Excellent and most true observation.
 
nongfuspring said:
I think it is obvious that these people are taking advantage of their best option in life, as YYV mentioned their other options are certainly pretty dire. I've spent a lot of time in China, speak Chinese etc., I've seen horrifying things - working in a factory is definitely not the worst scenario for the average rural Chinese.

But - if we're to import these people's goods, services, and so on, isn't it only fair that we export our living and labour standards as well? It only requires a small percentage more in retail costs for these folks to live a recognisably comfortable life.
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Generally speaking, capitalism does not allow for that "small percentage more in retail costs". Costs must be cut to produce more profits. It's the nature of the system. In this country and others, these types of conditions led to labor unrest, unions, and eventually legislation to protect the rights of workers, etc.

The Chinese upper classes can use this virtual slavery system to their advantage in the world market. For now, these appalling conditions and even worse conditions in poorer countries will continue. Eventually, globalization should even things out more or less...
 
China is no where near the atrocious conditions that certain third world countries have for their workers, like Bangladesh for an example.
This discussion has been going on for years, life goes on unfortunately for some and fortunately for others.
Fate and karma deal their cards how they want and we can bitch as much as we want.
If you feel you want to do some good for the unfortunate, there is nothing stopping us from doing such.
 
silver92b@gmail.com said:
Generally speaking, capitalism does not allow for that "small percentage more in retail costs". Costs must be cut to produce more profits. It's the nature of the system. In this country and others, these types of conditions led to labor unrest, unions, and eventually legislation to protect the rights of workers, etc.

The Chinese upper classes can use this virtual slavery system to their advantage in the world market. For now, these appalling conditions and even worse conditions in poorer countries will continue. Eventually, globalization should even things out more or less...
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I don't think globalization necessarily evens anything out - it shifts problems at best, it doesn't fix them. For things to change consumers would have to demand better rights for workers (it has happened before) because (somewhat ironically) in China it is illegal to unionise. In the meantime though, as much as I dislike the system, these people will gradually rise to affluence - though at the expense of the next underclass. The only way out of this is to opt for an entirely new system of political and economic organisation.
 
nongfuspring said:
I think it is obvious that these people are taking advantage of their best option in life, as YYV mentioned their other options are certainly pretty dire. I've spent a lot of time in China, speak Chinese etc., I've seen horrifying things - working in a factory is definitely not the worst scenario for the average rural Chinese.

But - if we're to import these people's goods, services, and so on, isn't it only fair that we export our living and labour standards as well? It only requires a small percentage more in retail costs for these folks to live a recognisably comfortable life.
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Depending on the economic assumptions at hand, but my research (which is actually my research) suggests that low prices might be more beneficial for the laborers. The loss in unit income is offset by volume, and eventually wages will catch up. If prices get bid up, richer countries start producing for themselves and they lose out on the revenue.

There are of course a lot of complications involved...I'm just saying that what is "best" might not be so clear in all cases :D Good hearts do not necessarily mean good deeds.
 
YYV_146 said:
When you have too many spare hands and too few job openings, bargaining power of workers will be weak. No amount of pressure can change the fundamental relationship involved. Forcing higher standards will do little more than drive workers out of factories, into farm life with worse conditions or unemployment. Then you get legalized unions and government-mandated hiring practices, labor protectionism, the whole quagmire the US sank itself into during the 70s and 80s.

I agree that there are some gross violations of health standards and human rights that must be stopped. What's shown here, though, doesn't come close to that.
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We actually agree on the gradual process most societies go through upon industrializing, as well as the high horse a few people here get on when commenting on this topic.

I don't have illusions about where Chinese workers are on this path, and I've acknowledged the reality that these jobs represent a big step up from rural farm life.
However, there's also a very real sense of grievance towards the West and its attitude to China in the minds of many Chinese...based on about 150 years of colonial history. Simply shrugging and saying "oh well" when confronted with reports of appalling health and safety situations would be callous.

Be clear: we're not talking about making another few bucks an hour or having 3 weeks vacation each year. We're talking conditions that drove workers to suicide at FoxxConn...workers being exposed to toxic chemicals just to save pennies on the cost of an iPhone...among other things.

How can anyone claim to have concern or compassion for Chinese people and just shrug when confronted with these things?

Sorry, but putting pressure to eliminate conditions that literally kill Chinese workers will hardly put anyone out of business. Let's get real.
 
I appreciate the expertise YYV, and Colin I think that's a fair sentiment. It's nice to see everyone is on the same page, though I think we're getting into is vs ought territory (Hume's Guillotine), in other words I don't actually think either of you disagree.
 
YYV_146 said:
When you have too many spare hands and too few job openings, bargaining power of workers will be weak. No amount of pressure can change the fundamental relationship involved. Forcing higher standards will do little more than drive workers out of factories, into farm life with worse conditions or unemployment. Then you get legalized unions and government-mandated hiring practices, labor protectionism, the whole quagmire the US sank itself into during the 70s and 80s.

....
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Yeah, Victor, the 'quagmire' that once was known as a decent life. Since you want to use personal experience as a credential, I did live through those times, and things were much better for the US middle class. Jobs were relatively plentiful, education meant something, one salary could support a family.

Things went downhill in the 80's when people with your ideology started to get the upper hand.

Randy
 
True...labour unions have a proven track record of improving living standards, raising widespread income levels and improving education and health levels -- trickle-down and tax cuts most certainly do NOT.
 
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