No doubt education ultimately creates wealth, although it is debatable whether government does the best with the resources it takes to do the job.
wgerrard
Veteran
Those who are favored, even by chance, have an advantage that allows them and their descendants -- real or fiduciary -- to accumulate more wealth and power.
We cannot depend on the good will of people to manage society. Too many of us are greedy acquisitive b******s.
Last edited:
bmattock
Veteran
Imagine any human endeavor in which those who are gifted, those who work especially hard, those who are the beneficiaries of family wealth, and those who are simply lucky are told that they will be penalized on a sliding scale based on their success. The better they are, the more they will be punished.
How many will continue to try to excel?
And once those who pull the sled the most decide to quit doing so, the sled stops moving. And those in back wonder why.
I have had a very clear example in my own life. Offered the opportunity to take on a new role that would have required a great deal more work, along with enhanced financial incentives, I chose not to pursue it. I did the math; the extra income would have been sucked away at a near confiscatory rate, so I'd be working my guts out for people who cannot - or will not - work. No.
When the performers have been taxed into oblivion and the sled stops moving, I really don't want to hear the complaints from those who refuse to pull and hate those who do.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
For real competition to exist, yes. If the playing field is uneven, those on the bad side of the field begin life with a huge disadvantage that is hard to overcome, while the lucky ones born to better circumstances do not have to work near as hard to succeed. I've seen it over and over, rich kid's mommy and daddy buys her a career or sets him up in a business. Life is harder for those of us who had to EARN everything we have instead of having it handed to us by our families. The mere existence of poverty in a country as rich as ours is a moral outrage, a disgrace, and for those of you who call yourselves Christians, a sin against everything that Christ preached.
bmattock
Veteran
We cannot depend upon the good will of people who manage society to manage society. Too many of them are greedy, acquisitive...well you get the idea.
People are people. Put in the position of 'leveling the playing field', they will first take care of themselves, and then favor anyone who can make their lot in life better.
The idea that I can't manage my own life, but there are people who can manage it for me far better than I can, so therefore they ought to do so, is anathema to any free man.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I'm tired of that lie that people wont seek wealth if they have to pay taxes. History shows in millions of cases that is not true. Even in communist Russia, ambitious people worked hard and got ahead by working within the system, such as it was. There will always be people who want more than someone else has, and no matter how high the taxes, these people will do what it takes to get rich.
wgerrard
Veteran
Well said, Chris.
We also need to get over the notion that wealth accumulation is the only accurate measure of a person's worth and success.
We also need to get over the notion that wealth accumulation is the only accurate measure of a person's worth and success.
emraphoto
Veteran
"the idea that I can't manage my own life, but there are people who can manage it for me far better than I can, so therefore they ought to do so, is anathema to any free man"
indeed! sadly it is also the cornerstone to the neo-conservative movement.
indeed! sadly it is also the cornerstone to the neo-conservative movement.
The problem is, not enough of them will.
When the incentive is gone, as Bill states, the productivity declines, and the wealth goes away to those countries who have systems that reward the effort.
Politicians have created a system whereby it's better to ship jobs overseas, because of confiscatory taxation. And then they have the audacity to blame the companies for doing what companies are supposed to do...create wealth. It's wealth creation that creates jobs. It's not the other way around. It would be nice to have them here.
The mess we have today is entirely government created.
When the incentive is gone, as Bill states, the productivity declines, and the wealth goes away to those countries who have systems that reward the effort.
Politicians have created a system whereby it's better to ship jobs overseas, because of confiscatory taxation. And then they have the audacity to blame the companies for doing what companies are supposed to do...create wealth. It's wealth creation that creates jobs. It's not the other way around. It would be nice to have them here.
The mess we have today is entirely government created.
Last edited by a moderator:
bmattock
Veteran
So what you are saying is that people who were lucky enough to be born into wealth instead of earning it themselves ought to be punished for it. That's nothing but petty jealousy.
I inherited nothing at all. I have little, but I earned all I have. I do not envy those who inherited their wealth, nor do I envy lottery winners. That's their concern. My concern is my life, not what happens to others.
Liberals like to say that when they're going on about the necessity of confiscatory taxes to punish the rich, but when asked to allow a Christian display on public property, suddenly that's wrong and must not be allowed because we are not a Christian nation. If we can't have a nativity scene on the courthouse lawn, then Christian values cannot be used to defend forced redistribution of wealth. Let Christians who care, demonstrate it by private donation. If they fail to do so, that would be between them and their Creator. Last I heard, government had not been elected the second coming of Christ.
bmattock
Veteran
I'm enjoying reading the slams imagined against me by describing various systems that I do not belong to as being bad. I am not a neo-conservative, feel free to slam them.
antiquark
Derek Ross
I doubt that privatizing education would work very well. Basically, the poor would end up uneducated and illiterate.
wgerrard
Veteran
I don't think anyone here is arguing that other people ought to manage our lives simply because they think they can do a better job. My argument is that in the process of successfully managing their lives, people historically have seen wealth and power accumulate in a tiny minority, to the detriment of everyone else. That's a process that antithetical to freedom, prosperity and all the other good things libertarians and conservatives say they hold dear.
Ever heard of vouchers? The taxes still are there, they still pay for education, it's just through private schools instead of through government schools and their liberal unions.
antiquark
Derek Ross
Yes, you cannot depend on the good will of politicians. But every four years you have a chance to fire them.
wgerrard
Veteran
So, you're arguing that laws that allow companies to go offshore are bad, but laws that force them to stay in the U.S. are good?
How is Bill Gates (or insert any or all of the world's richest employers) being rich a detriment to everyone else?
bmattock
Veteran
Wealth accumulates in the hands of a few in every system known to history, as far as I know. And it tends to be temporary in the long term. In the short term, I disagree that wealth accumulation in the hands of a few is detrimental to all others.
It's not like there is an end game where all money belongs to one person and everyone else dies. Every wealthy person does something with their money, they don't keep it in a box under the ground. That money works to build industry, fund labor, and generally keeps economies moving. That one person or family or corporation enjoys control of a great deal of it doesn't harm the thousands they employ or the hundreds of businesses they own, etc.