Photographer convicted

[RML]

I always found the "Virgina Is For Lovers" ad campaign funny after I learned that oral sex, even between adults, is illegal in VA.

WHAT?! French kissing is illegal now?!

 

[nikon_sam]

If this man wasn't a photographer would anyone here really care about him or this whole story??? Only asking this because this is the first thread I've seen here about any manslaughter conviction...and I know they happen all the time...

 

[Didier]

He was convicted by a jury of giving drugs to someone that resulted in her death. ...I hope he gets his thirty years. He was convicted period. I don't feel sorry for him. I feel sorry for the 19 year old girl whom he obviously victimized. ...I hope he gets put away and we never hear from him again.

I am sorry for that girl, very sorry.

"Convicted - period"? Yes, without evidence, by an opiononated jury who, in reality, judged his supposedly immoral lifestyle rather than the non-proven giving of drugs. He would NOT have neen judged in most western countries and many US states, not because he has n't done it, but because the evidences are missing.

But maybe that's too complicate to understand for some back country kangaroo courts.

Didier

 

[Trius]

Patrick: http://www.thestar.com/article/250586

I have no clue whether Shell actually committed the crime or not. What I do know is that a significant number of people are convicted of serious crime (and capital offences where capital punishment still exists) that are incorrectly accused and convicted.

Whatever the statistics are, to say "I hope he gets his thirty years. He was convicted period." without ceding any possibility that he may have been the victim of a witch hunt, shoddy investigation, incompetent prosecution or other miscarriage, is quite insensitive, IMO.

 

[PRJ]

Trius- This ain't 1959.

He had the opportunity to defend himself and he was judged by a jury to be guilty. The miscellaneous sex charges were probably added to increase the sentence. I do not feel sorry for him one bit. How can anybody accuse me of being insensitive? I stand by what I said. Instead of judging the system to be faulty, why not talk about why a 19 year old girl is dead because of Bob Shell? I think the system did right by her. Everybody always forgets the victim. Shell helped end the life of someone. He deserves to be punished for it.

Would anybody be defending him or saying the system was bad if he had killed your daughter?

 

[kshapero]

Perhaps, but studies also show that 78.3% of statistics quoted are made up on the spot.

Seriously, it sure would suck if you ever found yourself in that 0.6%!

damn bummer that would be.

 

[Matthew Runkel]

Every trial requires someone to make "findings of fact" such as about which testimony to believe. Whether these findings are made by a jury or by a judge, our system gives them great respect because the finders of fact (judge or jury) are the ones who sat through the whole trial, were in a position to assess the demeanor, credibility and truthfulness of witnesses, etc. Appeals courts, including even the Supreme Court, are not permitted to change the findings of fact made at trial (though they may order a new trial under various circumstances). This limitation is placed on appeals courts even though they have access to complete trial transcripts. I don't think anyone should read a brief press account and then substitute his judgment for that of twelve people who sat through the entire trial, saw all the evidence and heard all the testimony and, just as important, were shielded from irrelevant and prejudicial information about the case.

Criminal defendants in the United States have a constitutional right to trial by jury. They may waive this right, but few of them do, and this includes defendants represented by highly competent defense counsel. Interesting, if jury trials are like Russian roulette.

 

[BillBingham2]

Bob brought a lot to many people, it is sorry to see we might not hear from him again. I thought this was all done a while ago, but as usual, some times the wheels turn slowly.

There's a group of students up here in Northwestern University that has made a name for themselves getting people convicted on death row off. 99.4%, could be real, but then when you look at how many people make up 100% every year (USA is a BIG country) that .6% is a LARGE number.

There are large cultural differences between our states and as such what works as proof in Virginia might not hold in New York or Louisiana or California or even here in Illinois.

If I were on the Jury I would be asking questions like did they find drugs in the eye dropper the witness said he used? Was there any found in the cup or glasses? I'd want a lot more digging than I saw in the article. I've been a forman where we put a serial rapist away for the rest of his life. It was quick, but we went through the evidence in great detail looking for any way it might not have been him.

I am very sorry for the girl, her family, Bob and all of their friends. Bob did a lot of great things, I hope he is able to continue helping others.

B2 (;->

 

[raid]

I have stayed unbiased throughout the hearings periods the past few years. Bob used to email me, like many others, news on what developed in the hearings, with occasional "facts" of foul play resulting in the firing of a couple of police officers. I never checked those facts because I have no means or interest to be "dragged into" a case in which a young woman mysteriously died. Bob undertook risky and questionable behavior during work hours and afterwards. The young woman had her stability problems for a while it seems, but this fact could support the view that Bob should have not exploited this fact.

We should not pass judgement on something we don't fully understand. It is a sad event for all involved, starting with the dead young woman.

I am sad for losing someone like Bob Shell from contributions to photography magazines. The rest is something that I don't have the facts on.

 

[colyn]

He was convicted by a jury of giving drugs to someone that resulted in her death. That plays the same anywhere on earth. Quite frankly I am not ssure why anyone is defending him at this point. It is incredibly bad for photography, and perpetuates the idea that photographers are predaters.

Some here have insinuated that he was convicted because he lived in a Southern state...that's a bunch of crap...

I suspect the law had the proof he had spiked her drink and they had the photos he took of himself molesting her when she was out or dead..

The sad part is nobody is thinking of the girl because the accused is a photographer. Photographers are just as capable of being perverted and killers just like anybody else..

I hope he gets his thirty years. He was convicted period. I don't feel sorry for him. I feel sorry for the 19 year old girl whom he obviously victimized. No one has said anything about her yet.

I hope he gets put away and we never hear from him again.

Whether or not he intended to kill her isn't the issue. She died as a result of his negligence..therefore he is in fact guilty of what he was convicted of..so I fully agree with you...

 

[Steve Bellayr]

It is difficult to predict the behavior of people that we "think" we know well. I am never surprised when something like this happens.

 

[x-ray]

I am sorry for that girl, very sorry.

"Convicted - period"? Yes, without evidence, by an opiononated jury who, in reality, judged his supposedly immoral lifestyle rather than the non-proven giving of drugs. He would NOT have neen judged in most western countries and many US states, not because he has n't done it, but because the evidences are missing.

But maybe that's too complicate to understand for some back country kangaroo courts.

Didier

Were you in the court room or did you review all the documents that led to his conviction? Are you basing this on one quote from the news paper? I would guess the jury was privledged to more information than presented in this story. I think it's automatic that he gets an appeal. This is how the US courts check and balance each other.

 

[wlewisiii]

I think it's automatic that he gets an appeal. This is how the US courts check and balance each other.

Actually, no it is not automatic except in death penalty cases. To appeal you have to be able to show some flaw in the origonal trial. IIRC, Virgina has almost as narrow a list of admissable flaws as exists so he probably will not get a successful appeal unless someone like the Innocence Project gets involved.

And in the end, our justice system is based on class & money. You have money, you get justice. For example, the only reason that the Duke prosecutor got busted for extreamly common behavior is that the defendants had the money to fight it out. Up here we have had numerous cases of the prosecutors acting much worse but the defendants, and in one case a rape victim, were poor so no sanctions happened.

William

 

[x-ray]

It is difficult to predict the behavior of people that we "think" we know well. I am never surprised when something like this happens.

I worked side by side with another photographer for over a year and a half. He previously worked for NASA and at the time I worked with him at a department of defense in a nuclear weapons production and research facility. We each had Q (secret) clearances conducted by the FBI. After I left the opperation he was arrested and convicted of child pornography and sexual assault of young girls between 3 and 13 years old. The police found photographs of over 1000 children and discovered they went back as far as the mid 50's. His wife and son had no idea what he was doing. A number of the girls were missing and believed murdered by him but he was never convicted of murder but was convicted on 27 counts of child pornography and molestation of minors and was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

You never know about some people do you. Not even after a 6 month FBI check.

 

[Didier]

Were you in the court room

No I wasn't, but I happen to know some details, from Bob, about things that happened at the first arrest, in his studio, and during the time before the process, which let me believe neither the police, nor the bureau of investigation, nor the judges, nor the jury did an unbiased job.

I can only repeat: I do not know the truth. Only Bob knows it. The problem is, the jury does not know it, too, but made a judgment without any evidence. This is my concern. If there would be real evidences, the articels would certainly have mentioned it.

In many US states, and most western european countries, Bob would have profited of the benefit of doubt (if he now has done it or not) and maybe been punsihed for negligence, but not manslaughter.

Yes, I do consider law systems with death penalties as strongly backwardly, sorry to say that.

Didier

 

[Krosya]

That's exactly the problem I mentioned about jury courts. Especially in such a case, where it's "about sex, drugs, adultery and death", and this in a conservative southern state, the jury is not expected to be neutral and objective. Either they don't like the accused and convict him, or they like and acquit him. Mostly they just want to hang 'em hi. It's a pure opinion justice.

Alas, I don't think Bob was a choirboy, but I believe he would have deserved a fairer lawsuit.

Didier

Were YOU there to say that it was NOT fair?
Do you have facts to say what you say? Somehow you doubts a system, laws of the land and people that did there job to have their case. Bob had his chance as well. Just because he is a member of some forums doesn't mean he didn't have a fair trial.
Go with the facts not emotions!

 

[FrankS]

No need to attack anyone for expressing an opinion that may be different than yours. All we're doing here is expressing opinions.

 

[Matthew Runkel]

Of course a convicted person may appeal on the basis of errors of law made by the trial court in the course of a trial. These could include, for example, a decision by the judge to exclude some piece of evidence. All that is required is to assert error, and you have grounds to appeal. But you can't appeal a pure determination of fact that goes against you.

It's also worth noting that the prosecution has no ability to appeal an acquittal, which somewhat contradicts the idea that the state holds most of the cards in our system.

The Anglo-American jury system is not perfect, but some of the cavalier and blanket statements in this thread, leveled from other countries, show an almost insulting lack of perspective. In particular, the bit about "kangaroo courts" is insulting to most professional participants in the American justice system and almost everyone who has ever served on a jury in this country. It is not difficult to think of historical examples where the entire justice systems of nations following the continental, civil law model became corrupt. It is difficult to think of an example of this happening in a common-law jurisdiction with a jury system.

 

[Krosya]

I am sorry for that girl, very sorry.

"Convicted - period"? Yes, without evidence, by an opiononated jury who, in reality, judged his supposedly immoral lifestyle rather than the non-proven giving of drugs. He would NOT have neen judged in most western countries and many US states, not because he has n't done it, but because the evidences are missing.

But maybe that's too complicate to understand for some back country kangaroo courts.

Didier

Once again you are talking with no knowledge as to what evidence they had. Do you even know how jury is selected? How system works here? From your comments seems you don't. Once again, unless you were at the trial and know everything, and I mean everything that went there - you can't say things that you say!

 

[back alley]

let's all take a deep breath folks.