Photographer Meets Homeland Security Agents

[RJBender]

...I work for a German bank and through that connection find little about current German culture or society to recommend itself. Deutscheland is a now near-bankrupt and "coddled" society filled with people constantly looking for someone to take care of them. Quick - name a German Microsoft, or Google, or eBay or....well you get the picture - no entrepreneaurs there!

BS, George! The German reinsurance industry is the largest in the world. When we build flimsy structures along our beaches and they blow away, German reinsurance comes to the rescue. You don't think our insurance industry pays 100% of the loss, do you? Maybe the German reinsurers are starting to think that Americans are constantly looking for someone to take care of them.

R.J.

 

[RJBender]

Wasn't this supposed to be a discussion of opinions about photography and Homeland Securtiy??? Not bash USA/EU/Peru discussion/argument?
Remember, as previously stated, this is RFF - the good natured, common-sense forum ~ ; - )

The mosh pit of emotions is now under control, Captain!

R.J.

 

[Socke]

But I am an American and have every intention of sticking around and changing things!

That's it!

Same for me in Germany.

As long as we have the possibility to change things, we should do our best.

I think that is the lesson to learn from the way how the Nazis took over germany. The people gave up their power and hoped for a strong man solving all their problems.

It is our responsibility and we have to live up to this task.
This is why I strongly oppose securitiy laws invented by a former lawyer who once defendet terrorists.
Storing every e-mail, phone connection, location of mobile phones, video surveilance at public places and so on is not what I call liberty.

 

[Socke]

A couple ideas to german industry, yes, we don't have a Microsoft, Google or ebay. Ebay aquired the german company ricardo and built upon their software, Stardivision was aquired by Sun and Staroffice/Openoffice is still developed in Hamburg, Infineon has some damn fine chip technology besides RAM and expects profitability for its RAM business next year and plan to become #2 behind Samsung in 2007.
SAP is the #1 target of Oracle and Microsoft.
We still have an advantage in renewable energy, water, sun and wind, but since this is not a big industry it's not on the radar of our government :-(
Ok, besides water power, have a look at the turbines in most of the big water power plants, most are from Siemens.
Large parts of blue lasers where invented at the University in Bremen.

Parts of the Ariane 5 rocket and the Airbus wings are built here in Bremen, EADS Bremen is working on a new space transport vehicle which just had a successfull test of its automated landing system.
The device planned to stabilize the international space station is developed and built in Bremen.
The German part of ISS was built in Bremen and waits for a chance to be lifted into space, it was designed to be lifted with a Space Shuttle which may not be available any time soon :-(

And so on, there is a big potential here, but our government is more in preserving old structures than in developing new ones.

By the way, Duck brand, the company making the original ducttape developed in 1942 for the US armed forces, belongs to Henkel, still a german company 🙂

So it boils down to us, the people, we have a responsibility for the welbeing of our countries. Or as John F. Kennedy once said "And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what
you can do for your country."
This is still true and you can replace Americans with every other country in the world.

 

[Kevin]

There is a big difference between the "United States (US)" and the "United States of America (USA)". They have different laws and goals.

I like to compare it to identical twins. One brother is kind, gentle and peaceful but the other is a pugnacious evil liar. The evil brother is always trying to convince people he is the other one.

If your wish is to stay and fight your evil brother, my first thought would be to change your face so that people stop confusing the two of you.

Start at the local and state levels and disjoin from the union, which apparantly was never ratified by a majority of states.

Then you will become The Federal Republic of Idaho or The People's Republic of Wisconsin.

The rest of the world won't confuse you two anymore. Please document the changes with meaningful photographs, ones that show gracious sharing, determination and love.

Best of Luck,
Kevin

 

[dostacos]

Canada, United States, Mexico, Guatemala, Panama, Brazil, Argentina, etc. all of them is America, yes...


Yes, check, please.

yes and no.... kleenex is a brand of facial tissue, and they keep pointing it out YET people ask for a kleenex as a generic term for facial tissue [at least here in the USofA]

the US has become "America" even though all the countries in North/Central/South America are technically Americans, when people say America they trash er.. mean USA the country the world loves to hate, right up to the time when they need something from us, we give then it is back to trash talk.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

LOL, Dave.

Love that cartoon. I'd like to find one where the horse has been beaten to a pulp. That's what's been going on here. It reminds me of some relationships I had; one side hears one thing, the other side hears another, they are both right in some respects, one side is trying to talk some sense to the other, but then the other gets angry that it's being patronized, the other reacts that it's getting upset...

Unfortunately there are very few people that can see this and go "tsk tsk" and actually agree on many points with all sides, but the problem is, this problem is bigger than anything that could be resolved in RFF.

So, let's make like Japan and Korea when they hosted the World Cup back in 2002, and set it all aside, and play ball...

 

[RJBender]

Maybe a little action clip will help.🙂

Dave, I still see some movement in one of the horse's legs. 🙁

Back on topic. How would you like to be restricted to taking photographs on your own property? Do you feel like taking some pictures at Oktoberfests in Texas? Maybe not. Do you feel like photographing the Golden Gate Bridge? Maybe not. Do you feel like photographing monuments in Washington DC? Maybe not.

Do you really think writing a letter to this guy will help?

R.J.

 

[RJBender]

Perhaps photographers should get political to get a few laws changed! After that, we can go back and discuss equipment!

If you go back a few pages on this thread, some RFFers mentioned rifles. Gun owners have a powerful lobby. Do pro and amateur photographers have a lobby?

R.J.

 

[Socke]

I'm interested in this kind of discussion, especialy when they are as kind as this one 🙂

What one can read in the press is one part of the picture, real peoples opinions over what goes on in the world is another part.

We all have our opinions formed on the available information and discussing it with others should lead to a better understanding of what goes on and, hopefully, to more trust and understanding between each of us.

When I was in Cuba last year, I walked from the suburbs to the center of Matanzas several times, they have political graffity everywhere. One read "Un mundo mejor es possibile" a better world is possible.
If we keep these discussions as they are now, we help building a better world.

 

[nwcanonman]

If you don't agree with US policy, write a letter to Dubya.

..........................
I've written my views to every US President since Nixon, and regularly write (and now email) all my representatives.
To effect change we do need to let these elected officials know that they need to listen or they'll be voted out.
Yelling at each other on the RFF doesn't effect a thing - other than to hurt other's feelings.

 

[nwcanonman]

Perhaps photographers should get political to get a few laws changed! After that, we can go back and discuss equipment!

If you go back a few pages on this thread, some RFFers mentioned rifles. Gun owners have a powerful lobby. Do pro and amateur photographers have a lobby?
.....................
Someone passionate about the idea (maybe yourself?) should start-up a web site and invite others of like mind to join. But you have to pick a FOCUS and keep people to that one or the purpose of the group is totally lost.
Good Luck 🙂

 

[Kevin]

I was taught from an early age.....if you wish to keep a friend, don't discuss politics or religion.😉

You were also taught not to stare at strangers.

Such rules of conduct were invented to prevent you from doing the obvious. The foundation of democracy is discourse. By spreading corrupt guidelines into the masses, the elite has effectively subverted real democracy by telling you not to discuss it.

Very clever.

 

[nwcanonman]

"You were also taught not to stare at strangers.- Kevin"
...............
I, personally, was never taught that and have no idea what the 'obvious' is. I always look people in the eye, wear whatever color clothes I please and take pictures of anything so far, without being told "You can't do that!"
Many in our society are 'sheep' and will stop taking that photo without questioning why. If I do get told "YOU CAN't do that!", he better be prepared to take me to his/her supervisor and have legal cause.

 

[Socke]

Considering the advice was given by my father. I don't give credence to your elite reference.

You kinda of sound like some of the so called radicals I grew up with in the 60's.
Where are they? Microsoft, IBM, Wall Street.............😉

And foreign secretary, home secretary, chancellor ....

 

[Pherdinand]

Not one nation on this Earth would be able to live without the rest.
That's my statement, all I have to say within this discussion.

 

[RJBender]

I'm interested in this kind of discussion, especialy when they are as kind as this one 🙂

What one can read in the press is one part of the picture, real peoples opinions over what goes on in the world is another part.

We all have our opinions formed on the available information and discussing it with others should lead to a better understanding of what goes on and, hopefully, to more trust and understanding between each of us.

When I was in Cuba last year, I walked from the suburbs to the center of Matanzas several times, they have political graffity everywhere. One read "Un mundo mejor es possibile" a better world is possible.
If we keep these discussions as they are now, we help building a better world.

I agree. 😉 Well said, Socke!
These knee jerk reactions I see in America (but not on this forum 😉 ) bother me. Relax, take your time to research an issue, turn off the talk radio and don't feel pressured to have an opinion on everything.

R.J.

 

[Kevin]

Considering the advice was given by my father. I don't give credence to your elite reference.

You kinda of sound like some of the so called radicals I grew up with in the 60's.
Where are they? Microsoft, IBM, Wall Street.............😉

There was a big story in the SF Chronical a few years back that disclosed the FBI's subversive activities in the 60's student movements. The establishment succeeded in corrupting everything with all sorts of intelligent tactics.

Some of the hippies (and their children) are still around - in Berkeley for example. But I suppose many/most simply gave up and joined the status quo. So yes, some have joined the ranks of corporate america.

As far as being taught to not stare at strangers, I was actually taught to 'people watch' by my german mother. Maybe that's why I enjoy photographing people today. It is a form of staring, no doubt about it.

Say, are you not a believer in the existence of social engineering?

 

[shaaktiman]

Good topic guys.

This thread may have changed in the last page or so, but there is one comment that I'd like to make concerning dealing with cops.

As a NYC inhabitant for 10 years I've has a few friends whose altercations with individual police officers ended very badly for them. Remember to bear in mind when dealing with cops that they hold 100% of the power in 99% of any situation you might be in. Sure, Justin Volpe was jailed for extreme brutality, but for every Abner Louima who gets belated justice, there are 100 people who just find themselves fucked up. This isn't to say that I don't support and admire those who stand up for their (and everone's) rights, especially when there is a cost that they pay at the end of the day. Just use your heads; cops are individuals like everyone else, some are OK and some are psychotic, and if you end up stuck with a psychotic cop who you've pissed off you have very little recourse at that moment and a super low chance of real justice ever prevailing should you get hurt.

And sometimes a simple misunderstanding can go totally south. (especially in today's paranoid environment.) It kind of reminds me of an encounter I had a few months ago; granted it was in Jerusalem, but I think it still applies.

I was walking around and decided to take a picture of a decked out VW bug art car that some hippies were driving. A plainclothes officer just APPEARED in front of me (it was pretty impressive actually) and started questioning me in Hebrew (which I don't know at all.) I explained that I was american and told him exactly what I was doing (his english was fluent) and he briefly spoke into his CB, smiling at me all the time. At that point my Israeli girlfriend interjected and after a brief exchange we were allowed to walk away. Later she told me what he said into the CB. "I have a suspicious looking foreigner here taking pictures of traffic and overpasses. He doesn't speak any hebrew, requesting backup." We laughed later on at how if she had left to grab us some water at the wrong moment I would have probably spent the rest of the weekend in jail.

In that case, I couldn't have done much to help the situation. It's just a good example of how easily shit can go pear-shaped real fast, with no cause. I agree with Bill and recommend actively enforcing your rights whenever possible; this is just a (preachy, sorry) reminder to use caution when talking to cops and watch your freakin' tongues.

 

[RJBender]

Someone passionate about the idea (maybe yourself?) should start-up a web site and invite others of like mind to join. But you have to pick a FOCUS and keep people to that one or the purpose of the group is totally lost.
Good Luck 🙂

I would need to research the NRA and see how it operates. Then I would need an attorney to set up a 501.3c corporation so donations would be tax deductible. (I just checked the NRA's website and donations to the NRA are not tax deductible.)

How about some suggestions for a .org domain name?

R.J.