mgd711
Medium Format Baby!!
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Actually, its really hard to photograph poverty here. Homeless people are nonexistant because the police find excuses to lock up anyone seen on the streets who looks homeless, so most of them are in jail almost continuously. I can count on one hand the number of homeless I have seen on the streets of Fort Wayne in my 35 yrs. This is a city of 250,000 people and it is not a wealthy city or a compassionate one, so the lack of homeless is un-natural.
We do have neighborhoods where the people are very poor but not homeless. You can't photograph there, the people will kill you and steal your gear within minutes of you showing up. The southeast side of the city averages a shooting every day and a murder every week. Drugs are sold openly on the streets while the police ignore it. Too busy protecting the city from the homeless....
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sig
Well-known
Hopefully somebody will also ask how the poor in the photo feel about it. Not that it is important.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Well, that was a part of what prompted the original question. I do not think I have often photographed people living in desperate poverty (not knowing where their next meal is coming from) but the very poor Tibetans I photographed in the 80s were pleased that their cause was being publicized; and, as I say, some became real friends.
After that, a lot comes down to what you regard as 'poverty'. I didn't really regard the old lady whom I helped with the haystack as living in 'poverty', and I don't think she did either. Poor, yes, poverty-stricken, no. The same was true in China -- thanks for the kind words, Israel.
I completely agree about 'disaster tourism', which is one reason why I don't photograph the very poor unless I am reasonably confident that my pictures may help them in some way. But people going about their daily life on the street, well, I'll treat the (reasonably) poor no differently than the (reasonably) rich.
Some of the negative reactions on this thread puzzle me, like the person who wanted it locked and the key thrown away. Some people seem VERY afraid of thinking about anything. So far, though, most of the reactions have been thoughtful and interesting, even if a few have been predictable and simplistic. I was particularly interested in the split between 'giving to charity but not to beggars/local poor' and 'giving to beggars/local poor but not to charity': I defnitely lean toward the latter, without necessarily excluding charities. I'm not sorry I started the thread.
Cheers,
R.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Am I photographing poverty? This family in Banao Cuba live in a house with no running water, and really struggle for enough calories to sustain themselves. I believe the photo would not have the same impact if shot in a typical suburban American neighborhood. This photo project has no lofty noble goal, only to show what ordinary Cuban people are like.
The girls were happier with the empty 35mm film canister I gave them to play with than any of my grandkids getting a new i-phone.
The girls were happier with the empty 35mm film canister I gave them to play with than any of my grandkids getting a new i-phone.
gilpen123
Gil
Documentary very sad indeed.
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helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
here in NYC it seems the Great Divide is getting BIGGER by the moment.... Frustrating & Heartbreaking to see
I am presently doing a body of Work on the Homeless
and try and help in my small way / a few dollars, hot meal , hook them up w' shelters and a just the Good common sense of Listening and Talking w/ those in Need ....
">
I am presently doing a body of Work on the Homeless
and try and help in my small way / a few dollars, hot meal , hook them up w' shelters and a just the Good common sense of Listening and Talking w/ those in Need ....
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
This is one of the fundamental points, which you have well clarified, at least in my mind. As soon as you are engaged with the people you are photographing, it's no longer 'disaster tourism' (or 'poverty tourism'). Why was I in Dharamsala? I'd proposed a book on Tibetan iconography; been asked if I coud do a biography of HH Dalai Lama, to which he assented; and then was asked by the Government in Exile to do a propaganda book, to which I gladly assented. That led in due course to a weakness for India in general. The main reason I went to China when I had the opportunity, on the other hand, was because of the advice of HH Dalai Lama: visit somewhere before you form an opinion. And wherever I am, I take pictures...
Cheers,
R.
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helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
what astounds me is How many People just pass them by with little or No Concern....
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ebino
Well-known
Helen, is that same individual in both of your photos? it seems they both are wearing the same shoes.
edit: sorry, i don't think its the same pair of shoes.
edit: sorry, i don't think its the same pair of shoes.
israel_alanis
The Laugher
That is my point.
I think the morality of photography is very difficult to justify, if we talk of morality we never finished talking about that.
Photojournalism has the obligation to report, I guess that's the justification that it has.
But if the photography of the bad events should be banned I guess that's a bad point of discussion.
Some people may not want to see these pictures because it hurts (so I understand) but may be also because they think no one can help these people, not themselves.
The reaction when I saw this kind of people, or on street of my city, is try to help the way I can, and we know that when we talk about help, too much never gonna be enough.
ebino
Well-known
Once I saw a man, with a huge SLR and lens, sitting in front of a homeless man on the sidewalk with a female which could have been his wife. He was shooting from the hip, sitting right infront of the guy! it seemed to me either he was showing off to his female company or passerbys or whatever, but i felt like going to him and giving him a nice lecture on how by sitting in front of the guy, it does not make him homeless and he must have the courage to lift the camera to his eye while sitting face-to-face with the poor homeless guy.
anyway, sometimes street photographers start thinking as if the own the street so i don't wanna fall into that trap, and rightly i ignored the charade and just walked away.
anyway, sometimes street photographers start thinking as if the own the street so i don't wanna fall into that trap, and rightly i ignored the charade and just walked away.
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
I did some pro bono work in my younger days representing people who couldn't afford a lawyer. My clients were usually immigrants but one day I walked up to the Homeless Advocacy Group and took a few cases. I sometimes delivered donated food and got to know a few people in the streets so I thought why not? It was Haight Asbury in the age of Jefferson Starship.
Basically I helped my homeless clients get their Social Security payments. You don't need to be a legal genius to do that. They get denied and you help them get their money. Honestly that was the worse gig of my life. I tried to get them to manage their money and not blow it on junk; I tried to get them into counseling; I tried to get them jobs; I tried very hard not to give them money out of my own pocket. I don't believe have ever photographed any of them but am sure having such close contacts would not have helped.
Basically I helped my homeless clients get their Social Security payments. You don't need to be a legal genius to do that. They get denied and you help them get their money. Honestly that was the worse gig of my life. I tried to get them to manage their money and not blow it on junk; I tried to get them into counseling; I tried to get them jobs; I tried very hard not to give them money out of my own pocket. I don't believe have ever photographed any of them but am sure having such close contacts would not have helped.
paulfish4570
Veteran
People can be poor in so many ways: poor in spirit, poor in material goods, poor in intellectual acuity, poor in health (mental and/or physical), poor in all of these things at once, poor in circumstances because they are lazy, poor in circumstances because of addictions, and poor in circumstances because of both.
Jesus of Nazereth said the poor always will be with us. That does not mean ignore the poor. It does mean the challenge to care always will be with us ...
Jesus of Nazereth said the poor always will be with us. That does not mean ignore the poor. It does mean the challenge to care always will be with us ...
israel_alanis
The Laugher
gb hill
Veteran
Excellent point Paul. What about a few of the women photographed by Frank Petrino. Does one look at them as sexual objects or is one able to veer past the nudity to see a young girl thats been led astray down a path of misuse & drug addiction? Why is it that it is so wrong to take a photograph of the homeless but ok to see a young girl strung out on dope as long as she has no clothes on? (this is not meant as a rip on Frank's work just trying to make a point here)
emraphoto
Veteran
Misuse and drug addiction? How did we arrive at that? Do you know any of them?
robklurfield
eclipse
Good points Paul & GB.
Perhaps the thing that puts the work of Frank and others -- Bob Michaels comes to mind here -- is their willingness and great effort to understand, interact and empathize with their subjects. Bob has talked about how almost always engages his street photography subjects in conversations where he gets to know them.
Frank, of course, has a modeling relationship with these girls (and this is certainly not street photography, reportage or PJ). He gives them something (travel expenses, prints for portfolios, visibility, etc.) and they give him their time and openness.
In any case, what makes these images work so well (for me anyway) the way they do is that people like Frank and Bob treat their subjects with great respect and grant them tremendous dignity in doing so. It becomes an exchange -- really a two-way street. I have the utmost respect and admiration for that manner of working and while I aspire to behave in that way, I honestly can't admit to having been able to live up to that standard in my own style of shooting (especially what I do on the street).
Anyone can learn to point a camera and make a nice exposure and even a decent composition. The interaction between subject and shooter in this kind of photography is at least part of what separates art from crap and exploitation.
In Frank's case, there is a tremendous amount of depth to the images that captures something about these women's stories, emotions, beauty, striving, etc. I don't ever have the sense in a Frank Petronio image of a subject being purely sexualized or objectified. The images are intimate and penetrating, baring far more than flesh. I think that back story to many of Frank's models is that they are questing to get better lives. In Bob's case, it's really all about these peoples' stories and granting them dignity (and also, putting the stories and the people into a meaning context). I don't ever have the sense in a Bob Michael's photograph of a subject being exploited for sensationalism or anything else. These images ask and begin to answer how their subjects arrived at where they are.
I don't mean to single Frank or Bob out here to the exclusion of any of the other great artists whose work I've enjoyed on RFF. I'm just pointing to these two because I've come to know them and their methods a little by having the good fortune to interact with them on the site. I really appreciate the generosity of spirit of an awful lot of people here who share ideas and techniques. These two are not the only ones.
Perhaps the thing that puts the work of Frank and others -- Bob Michaels comes to mind here -- is their willingness and great effort to understand, interact and empathize with their subjects. Bob has talked about how almost always engages his street photography subjects in conversations where he gets to know them.
Frank, of course, has a modeling relationship with these girls (and this is certainly not street photography, reportage or PJ). He gives them something (travel expenses, prints for portfolios, visibility, etc.) and they give him their time and openness.
In any case, what makes these images work so well (for me anyway) the way they do is that people like Frank and Bob treat their subjects with great respect and grant them tremendous dignity in doing so. It becomes an exchange -- really a two-way street. I have the utmost respect and admiration for that manner of working and while I aspire to behave in that way, I honestly can't admit to having been able to live up to that standard in my own style of shooting (especially what I do on the street).
Anyone can learn to point a camera and make a nice exposure and even a decent composition. The interaction between subject and shooter in this kind of photography is at least part of what separates art from crap and exploitation.
In Frank's case, there is a tremendous amount of depth to the images that captures something about these women's stories, emotions, beauty, striving, etc. I don't ever have the sense in a Frank Petronio image of a subject being purely sexualized or objectified. The images are intimate and penetrating, baring far more than flesh. I think that back story to many of Frank's models is that they are questing to get better lives. In Bob's case, it's really all about these peoples' stories and granting them dignity (and also, putting the stories and the people into a meaning context). I don't ever have the sense in a Bob Michael's photograph of a subject being exploited for sensationalism or anything else. These images ask and begin to answer how their subjects arrived at where they are.
I don't mean to single Frank or Bob out here to the exclusion of any of the other great artists whose work I've enjoyed on RFF. I'm just pointing to these two because I've come to know them and their methods a little by having the good fortune to interact with them on the site. I really appreciate the generosity of spirit of an awful lot of people here who share ideas and techniques. These two are not the only ones.
antiquark
Derek Ross
Compassion Fatigue
Compassion Fatigue
Regarding the "compassion fatigue" that a few posters mentioned earlier...
I think it's real. If you give, say, $100 for some disaster, and a similar disaster happens a week later, you're far less likely to give again. The charitable agencies have noticed that pattern, so it's a fact.
I find a simple workaround to compassion fatigue is to give a small amount as part of a monthly subscription. With the Red Cross for example, you can give as little as $5 per month, automatically charged to your credit card.
Charities actually prefer monthly payments to lump donations. They're easier to budget with, and more reliable. Once people start donating, they're less likely to stop (due to the "out of sight out of mind" effect of a minor credit card payment.)
Compassion Fatigue
Regarding the "compassion fatigue" that a few posters mentioned earlier...
I think it's real. If you give, say, $100 for some disaster, and a similar disaster happens a week later, you're far less likely to give again. The charitable agencies have noticed that pattern, so it's a fact.
I find a simple workaround to compassion fatigue is to give a small amount as part of a monthly subscription. With the Red Cross for example, you can give as little as $5 per month, automatically charged to your credit card.
Charities actually prefer monthly payments to lump donations. They're easier to budget with, and more reliable. Once people start donating, they're less likely to stop (due to the "out of sight out of mind" effect of a minor credit card payment.)
gb hill
Veteran
No! I don't know any of them, just going by what I have read what Frank said about a few of the girls he has gotten to know. Rob summed up my point very nicely! I was afraid I wouldn't get my point across but Rob understood. All I was wishing to point out like Paul stated above is that poverty is not restricted to just living conditions alone. I believe many of the rich & famous live impovershed lives, Just look at Charlie Sheen's wasted life right now. Sure he's got millions in the bank but his drunkeness as of late shows he is a very unhappy person. I guess we see poverty in a different manor!