Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
So there are people who are adamant in their belief that a photograph, if it's good at all, must tell a story. If it doesn't tell a story, the photograph is not worth it.
How can you make a photograph tell a good story, then? Well, you need a good storytelling structure:
1. Stasis
2. Trigger
3. The quest
4. Surprise
5. Critical choice
6. Climax
7. Reversal
8. Resolution
Without a good storytelling structure, you cannot have a good story to tell, and hence you cannot have a good photograph.
"Apples and oranges", you scoff. Well, that's what I said, but you insist that the photograph, to be worthy, tell a story.
So let's take one of HCB's photos:
Image: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NNxB-HMPH...nwenTxah-A/s1600/henri_cartier_bresson006.jpg
Source: http://eman59photos.blogspot.fr/2010/04/bresson-at-moma.html
1) Stasis: The photo itself does not state the location, except of course outdoors, sunny day, a place where children and a few men are in front of some wall. Are we running into a storytelling problem already?
2) Trigger: something beyond the control of the storyteller sparks the story. Children and men in front of the camera seem to be beyond control here...ok
3) Quest: triggered by the...emm...Trigger. Perhaps the camera's shutter? OK, the quest is triggered. The quest is...hmm...gosh...a photo...the quest is a photo. ok
4) Surprise: they could be obstacles, pleasant or unpleasant events, which, preferably, must be plausible yet not predictable. So, the man in the hat is being partly blocked by a kid; that must've been a surprise. There's another kid in a blocking trajectory of the first blocking kid, that's an extra surprise. ok
5) Critical choice: the protagonist (did we identify him/her/it yet??) makes a critical choice, which takes the story on a particular and decisive path. A moment which was decisively chosen. Ah! The photographer has made a critical choice: released the camera's shutter at this critical, dare I say, decisive moment. That was a surprise. ok
6) Climax: this is the highest peak in the story. Men and children were moving about, in some place, and...a photographer had this quest to take their photo, and he made a critical choice which revealed a surprise, which was to be revealed at the moment of film development and photo printing. Yes, photo development is the climax of this story. ok
7) Reversal: A reversal is the consequence of the critical choice and climax. Some people suffering of ADDI (Attention Deficit Disorder in Images) would call the unleveled horizon and kid's head in front of a man's crotch "distracting", and prevent them from enjoying the rest of the photograph. This is indeed a Reversal. ok
8) Resolution: this is a return to a fresh stasis. The photograph has been printed and is now being looked at. At this point a new story can begin. Say, being exhibited at the Museum of Modern Art. ok
So what we have here is the photo telling a story of itself. Personally, I think the storytelling took away from the photograph itself. I found the storytelling of this photograph being a photograph quite redundant. I like to watch and analyse the photo for the abstractness and language-void that is implicit in the absolute that is a photograph (not a storygraph); I find the story personal and the photograph successful at allowing me to enjoy it without having to discern an eight-point arc.
What do you think?
How can you make a photograph tell a good story, then? Well, you need a good storytelling structure:
1. Stasis
2. Trigger
3. The quest
4. Surprise
5. Critical choice
6. Climax
7. Reversal
8. Resolution
Without a good storytelling structure, you cannot have a good story to tell, and hence you cannot have a good photograph.
"Apples and oranges", you scoff. Well, that's what I said, but you insist that the photograph, to be worthy, tell a story.
So let's take one of HCB's photos:
Image: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NNxB-HMPH...nwenTxah-A/s1600/henri_cartier_bresson006.jpg
Source: http://eman59photos.blogspot.fr/2010/04/bresson-at-moma.html
1) Stasis: The photo itself does not state the location, except of course outdoors, sunny day, a place where children and a few men are in front of some wall. Are we running into a storytelling problem already?
2) Trigger: something beyond the control of the storyteller sparks the story. Children and men in front of the camera seem to be beyond control here...ok
3) Quest: triggered by the...emm...Trigger. Perhaps the camera's shutter? OK, the quest is triggered. The quest is...hmm...gosh...a photo...the quest is a photo. ok
4) Surprise: they could be obstacles, pleasant or unpleasant events, which, preferably, must be plausible yet not predictable. So, the man in the hat is being partly blocked by a kid; that must've been a surprise. There's another kid in a blocking trajectory of the first blocking kid, that's an extra surprise. ok
5) Critical choice: the protagonist (did we identify him/her/it yet??) makes a critical choice, which takes the story on a particular and decisive path. A moment which was decisively chosen. Ah! The photographer has made a critical choice: released the camera's shutter at this critical, dare I say, decisive moment. That was a surprise. ok
6) Climax: this is the highest peak in the story. Men and children were moving about, in some place, and...a photographer had this quest to take their photo, and he made a critical choice which revealed a surprise, which was to be revealed at the moment of film development and photo printing. Yes, photo development is the climax of this story. ok
7) Reversal: A reversal is the consequence of the critical choice and climax. Some people suffering of ADDI (Attention Deficit Disorder in Images) would call the unleveled horizon and kid's head in front of a man's crotch "distracting", and prevent them from enjoying the rest of the photograph. This is indeed a Reversal. ok
8) Resolution: this is a return to a fresh stasis. The photograph has been printed and is now being looked at. At this point a new story can begin. Say, being exhibited at the Museum of Modern Art. ok
So what we have here is the photo telling a story of itself. Personally, I think the storytelling took away from the photograph itself. I found the storytelling of this photograph being a photograph quite redundant. I like to watch and analyse the photo for the abstractness and language-void that is implicit in the absolute that is a photograph (not a storygraph); I find the story personal and the photograph successful at allowing me to enjoy it without having to discern an eight-point arc.
What do you think?
Sparrow
Veteran
... personally I prefer to stick doggedly to my preconceived opinions than to think about stuff 
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
That's what makes Progress an interesting story.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
There are? Or do they think that either some photographs can tell stories, or that you can (if you wish) base a story on pretty much any photograph?
Cheers,
R.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Oh, yes, very much indeed. I have personally debated with some of them, one of them a gallery curator. Had I known that (that he's a gallery curator) beforehand, I would have just kept my mouth shut. It was like trying to exchange hamburger recipes with a vegan.
He (I'll look up his name, as it escapes me...) insisted "all photographs *must* tell a story" (my asterisks) in order to be worthy.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Good grief.
This is of course a superb illustration of the fact that you have only to produce a single counter-example to invalidate the argument that a particular event NEVER happens. It's the black swan all over again: all swans are white -- until you see a black swan.
Another superb illustration is "Condom Shack", post 192 of http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131018&page=8 by candidcameraman The story may not be exactly the same for everyone; it may not be accurate, in the sense of reflecting what the woman with the pushchair was thinking; but the picture tells at least one story superbly.
I like your simile, by the way.
Cheers,
R.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Sometimes that's not an option.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Useless discussion this is.
Thought I'd add something constructive to this debate and started by looking up the exact meaning of the word 'story'.
Prepare to laugh annoyingly loud and hang on to your tonsils before clicking this link:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/story
Now you see why no two forum members might ever fully agree on this?
Thought I'd add something constructive to this debate and started by looking up the exact meaning of the word 'story'.
Prepare to laugh annoyingly loud and hang on to your tonsils before clicking this link:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/story
Now you see why no two forum members might ever fully agree on this?
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
But discuss we must, if creation of good photo we seek.
rhl-oregon
Cameras Guitars Wonders
And this is what I wake up to: a couple of otherwise perceptive and thoughtful adults on another continent in the midst of Yoda-talk.
This community love I. There is no story! There is sto and there is ry. Sometimes I do ry, sometimes I do sto. XO R
This community love I. There is no story! There is sto and there is ry. Sometimes I do ry, sometimes I do sto. XO R
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Heres a great example of a photographic story. Its a book and its one of the truly greats of that last half of the last century.
Now this is a story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHtRZBDOgag
My advice would be learn all you can about using line, shape, tone, color and how to use them together and how to use the frame to help a visual statement. Look at not only photographs but other two dimensional art. See how the artists and photographers are using these things.
A great photographer once told me about what makes a great photograph and its simple. "Either everything in the frame is helping the visual statement, and if its not helping it, then its hurting it. In great work thee is nothing that is just there." Now statement and story should not be confused.
Now this is a story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHtRZBDOgag
My advice would be learn all you can about using line, shape, tone, color and how to use them together and how to use the frame to help a visual statement. Look at not only photographs but other two dimensional art. See how the artists and photographers are using these things.
A great photographer once told me about what makes a great photograph and its simple. "Either everything in the frame is helping the visual statement, and if its not helping it, then its hurting it. In great work thee is nothing that is just there." Now statement and story should not be confused.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I haven't taken a look at it (the link), but normally, videos are meant to tell a story.
However, I can see how reading is a lost art. Without it, only buzzwords take over and become themselves an inkblot.
What I'm trying to say: I don't think the OP was clearly understood. What can I say, this was not meant to be a story, and was poorly told, in any case.
However, I can see how reading is a lost art. Without it, only buzzwords take over and become themselves an inkblot.
What I'm trying to say: I don't think the OP was clearly understood. What can I say, this was not meant to be a story, and was poorly told, in any case.
ferider
Veteran
Problem with the OP's logic, Gabriel. "A photo must tell a story" does not imply "A photo must tell a good story". Even less does it imply a good storytelling structure.
I know some great stories lacking good storytelling structure (I'm a Kafka fan, so there). Therefore, while every photo should tell a story, it might not have to tell a good one.
Like the jokes my kids used to tell in their early teens: "A man goes to the bakery. He buys a loaf of bread. When he exits, the bus is gone." (end of story, everybody laughs).
I know some great stories lacking good storytelling structure (I'm a Kafka fan, so there). Therefore, while every photo should tell a story, it might not have to tell a good one.
Like the jokes my kids used to tell in their early teens: "A man goes to the bakery. He buys a loaf of bread. When he exits, the bus is gone." (end of story, everybody laughs).
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
You're quite right! The story could stink to high heaven but the requirement would still be met!
Suddenly, I now understand Honey BooBoo.
Suddenly, I now understand Honey BooBoo.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
sepiareverb
genius and moron
And vice-versa. My sister (a writer) and I have collaborated on a book around this very topic. I supplied her with a stack of prints and she supplied me with a stack of texts. We each then produced a stack of our own works based on the stack we were given. A very fun project which has not seen the light of day.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Problem with the OP's logic, Gabriel. "A photo must tell a story" does not imply "A photo must tell a good story". Even less does it imply a good storytelling structure.
I know some great stories lacking good storytelling structure (I'm a Kafka fan, so there). Therefore, while every photo should tell a story, it might not have to tell a good one.
Like the jokes my kids used to tell in their early teens: "A man goes to the bakery. He buys a loaf of bread. When he exits, the bus is gone." (end of story, everybody laughs).
To further complicate things: must a photo tell the story the photographer intended, or just any story?
When people say that a single photograph on itself can tell the story that the photographer intended when taking the shot, I say Boloney.
When people say that a single photograph can tell a (as in any) story, I grant them that but what would be the use of calling the associations that viewers have with the photograph a 'Story'? It might be an association or an anecdote at best, but not a uniform, homogenous story to any and all viewers. Not from a single photograph, you would either need a series of photographs, or a single photograph with a caption, or a series with captions.
Roland, your example of a children's story is perfect. Anyone would agree that it hardly is the kind of story that we imagine when hearing the word 'Story', and yet it already would take three images to effectively convey it to a viewer.
The least we can say about a story, is that it has development, or progress, or maybe even a plot. Even if it is a self-conceived, solely personal string of associations and anecdotes, it still needs more than one image to convey it.
There, I've succumbed to sharing my views on this fruitless discussion again!
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Take a look its not a video well it is a video but its about a famous photograph book. .