Photography College Dilemma

[jaredangle]

So I'm currently nearing completion of my associate's degree in photography at Washtenaw Community College in Ann Arbor, Michigan, but I'm not sure what to do next. I've been trying (for quite some time, I must add) to locate a suitable BA or BFA program in photography, preferably in a location where I can make good contacts in the industry and further hone my skills, and preferably it will be in a location that is very populated and full of photographic opportunities.

I've looked into several programs at traditional public 4-year institutions in the United States, but they generally require students to also progress in other art forms such as painting, ceramics, et cetera. Other programs that are more specific, such as American University in Washington D.C. (especially their Prague Photography Program), and American University in Paris, located in Paris, are extremely expensive, being in the range of $40,000 USD for tuition alone, let alone standard rent and other living expenses.

Programs in Tokyo do not seem to be as prohibitively expensive, but these programs tend to not instruct in English, having a requirement of advanced Japanese. Learning the language in order to go to one of these schools is by no means a bad thing, but I'd prefer to start a program this year, rather than waiting one to two years to become fluent enough in Japanese to be eligible.

Are there any strong film-based programs in the United States or abroad that are not too expensive or have a language requirement? I have a preference for Europe and Japan/Vietnam.

 

[SolaresLarrave]

Look into Columbia College in Chicago, IL. At least some, if not all your credits will probably transfer in. I don't know whether it's public but it's reputedly the art college of the area.

 

[lilmsmaggie]

I suppose you've looked at Brooks Institute: http://www.brooks.edu

And Academy of Art Inst in San Francisco: http://www.academyart.edu

Or :School of Visual Arts in N.Y., http://www.schoolofvisualarts.edu

 

[Damaso]

I don't think there is a school that will meet all your criteria. One thing you should look at is if any of the schools you want to go to offer full scholarships or fellowships. I agree with the idea that you don't need a degree in photography per se. Get your B.A. in whatever and shoot your butt off while you do it...

 

[Chris101]

As an entering junior you need to ask what you expect to get from a degree in photography. Studying film based photography as an undergrad suggests further study in grad school and a career either as an artist, or more likely as a teacher. My best friend went the latter route, and I take her class over and over - mostly for access to the facilities. But I am also fascinated by her choice of career:

 

[dogbunny]

Just an idea, if you have a school in Japan/France or where ever that you are interested in check out who their "sister schools" are in the States, then check out those schools. A lot of times they have exchange programs set up with sister schools which offer more affordable options. You can at least get one or two semesters overseas without totally burying yourself with debt. Also, they have a support structure and are more accommodating as far as language requirements go. You won't exactly be in their "normal" program, but it is still away to gain the experience without quite as many hoops to jump through.

I spent some time at a university in Korea and I have friends that did exchanges with sister schools in Japan. Of course it won't be free, but it will be manageable depending on how much you want it.

cheers,

db

 

[Roger Hicks]

You have (or will have) an AA. How much more formal qualification do you need? Working as an assistant will teach you FAR more, FAR faster, and you'll get a small contribution to living expenses. DON'T take an unpaid 'internship' (except perhaps with a good friend whom you trust) as these devalue the entire business and you will be ripped off/exploited almost by definition.

BUT (sorry for all the caps) you need to assist in a real centre for creative photography -- London, Paris, Milan, NY, Tokyo etc, -- not Bug Tussle, Arizona, Dry Heaves, New Mexico or Power Cable, Nebraska.

I freely accept that times are different from when I and many of my friends started in the 50s, 60s and 70s, and that some sort of (?pseudo-) academic qualification is now more widely prized, but my suspicion is that if (a) you're any good and (b) the photographer who takes you on as an assistant is any good, you won't need more paper.

Additional advice given after re-reading Damaso's post. If you want to stay at university, consider reading something else. Salgado (as far as I recall) was an economist. I do not compare myself with Salgado but I've earned a living with camera and typewriter/word processor for over 30 years, and I've a degree in law. Both law and economics are highly refined forms of BS...

Advice given for what it is worth...

Good luck,

R.

 

[Andy Kibber]

$40K a year for tuition alone for an art program is terrifying. You could easily end up with $200K in debt at the end of four years, even if you work part-time. That is a staggering amount of debt to repay unless you plan on making $100K a year to start.

Wherever you decide to go, make sure you keep debt under control or your career in photography will be over before it starts.

 

[Roger Hicks]

$40K a year for tuition alone for an art program is terrifying. You could easily end up with $200K in debt at the end of four years, even if you work part-time. That is a staggering amount of debt to repay unless you plan on making $100K a year to start.

Wherever you decide to go, make sure you keep debt under control or your career in photography will be over before it starts.

Dear Andy,

YES, YES, a thousand times YES. And not just in photography.

Cheers,

R.

 

[jsrockit]

I wouldn't bank on Photography as a career (things change rapidly in life), so I think it is just important to get a BA or BFA of some kind. I have a BFA in photography, got burnt out, quit making photos for 10-12 years (right after school), and just recently got back into it out of pure love. My job is now as a Analyst for a regulator of stock and option exchanges. Sure, not exciting, but the degree helps, ...even if it is a BFA. If you end up doing Photography as a career, even better.

 

[drewbarb]

I'm with Roger and Damaso- don't take a further degree in photography. Your associates is plenty. If you really want to work as a photographer, work at a good studio or two. You already have all the qualifications you need for entry level photo jobs, and the best way to learn more in the field is by working with seasoned pros.

If you really want to finish college with a BA (not a bad idea at all) study something else that interests you besides photography. You'll end up better educated in general. This will help you in every way; it'll make you a better photographer, to have a greater basis of understanding of the world you live in. And if photography doesn't work out for you- or loses it's appeal as a profession- you'll have something else you know about.

Finally, if you really are committed to pursuing a higher degree in photography, go to one of the programs that requires you to study at least a modicum of other art forms. It's a poor artist who only understands the world through one medium. All the arts inform and influence each other. You don't have to be a great painter or ceramicist or lithographer or whatever to be a good photographer, but you need a real working understanding of several art forms to be great in any one. It gets you out of your head, and more deeply into the mental and spiritual practice of making art to detach the process from one specific medium and learn that the medium is secondary to the practice of making art.

When you learn this and internalize it and then step back into your chosen medium, your work becomes more about the message you have to convey and less about the method. This is important if you want to be really good at any art form.

 

[sper]

I graduated from Southern Illinois University Carbondale. Not exactly a glamorous location, but lots of natural beauty. Plus it's affordable, and the photo program is excellent.

As far as film goes they have, a gang silver darkroom for entry students, then private color and B&W darkrooms for anyone higher in the program. A C-41 processor and a small, but running E6 line. Multiple private film developing labs, and best of all a working 10x10 enlarger for those huge negatives!

Also their studio is full capable with a old, but respectable digital back, 2 cycs.

They also have a Coolscan 9000 or three, and Epson flatbeds, plus a bunch of Macs you probably already own.

For rental they have multiple monorail 4x5s, plus a Deardorff, X-Pan, Hasselblads, and some other stuff I don't remember. Most kids used their own cameras, save for the large format stuff. I bought a Hasselblad and a Deardorff while I was there.

Dan Overturf is the best professor I ever had. He WILL inspire you to go above and beyond what you thought was expected of you. Plus the quality of work from other students will keep you motivated to do better.

The best thing you can do right now is not come out of college in debt. I was able to and it was a huge advantage for me. Big schools that cost a lot of money have their advantages, which are mostly networking connections, but outside of the shrinking bubble that is the NYC photo world, that don't mean much.

Google SIUC Photography and send Dan Overturf an email. I'd advise a visit. It's one of the hidden gems of photo schools in the U.S.

 

[edmelvins]

I suppose you've looked at Brooks Institute: http://www.brooks.edu

And Academy of Art Inst in San Francisco: http://www.academyart.edu

Or :School of Visual Arts in N.Y., http://www.schoolofvisualarts.edu

Hey, can you give me some suggestions / recommendations for the school of visual arts in NY? I'm interested in studying there and I was hoping I could get unbiased comments or opinions here. Thanks a lot! 😀


EDIT:

- I forgot to tell you that I'm looking at their Fine arts and photography courses.

 

[ryan26]

Ryerson in Toronto http://imagearts.ryerson.ca/photography/index.cfm
expensive for an non-Canadian, but still less than many American universities.

It's true you don't 'need' a BFA in photography to be a photographer, but if you end up looking at other jobs related to photography, you may find that the bachelor degree is a standard requirement.

-Anyways, you're halfway done.
-You'll get out what you put in.
-Find an affordable option and put it all in!

 

[Roger Hicks]

Ryerson in Toronto http://imagearts.ryerson.ca/photography/index.cfm
expensive for an non-Canadian, but still less than many American universities.

It's true you don't 'need' a BFA in photography to be a photographer, but if you end up looking at other jobs related to photography, you may find that the bachelor degree is a standard requirement.

-Anyways, you're halfway done.
-You'll get out what you put in.
-Find an affordable option and put it all in!

In which case, a subject with broader relevance is almost certainly a good idea.

Of course, there's that school which queries what 'BFA' stands for: 'Bachelor of F*** All.'

It's perfectly true that many jobs now require a bachelor's degree, where they required few or no paper qualifications 30 years ago -- and the quality of those entering the trade, profession or calling in question has not actually risen at all.

All in all, an argument for a B.Sc. That way, you'll not be perceived as having taken the easy option, regardless of the accuracy of that perception.

Anyone who is not interested in other arts -- theatre, painting, whatever -- shouldn't be applying to degree in any fine art.

Cheers,

R.

 

[iamzip]

I don't have any practical advice in starting a photography career, but I would recommend checking out University of the Arts in Philadelphia. Good school.

 

[ryan26]

And to add to that, a degree in a discipline aside from photography can help your photography.

I did my BA in geography, which gave me a pretty good base to start as a documentary photographer.

I did an MFA in photography later (the usefulness of that is a whole other can of worms), but my work keeps coming back to geography.

In which case, a subject with broader relevance is almost certainly a good idea.

Of course, there's that school which queries what 'BFA' stands for: 'Bachelor of F*** All.'

It's perfectly true that many jobs now require a bachelor's degree, where they required few or no paper qualifications 30 years ago -- and the quality of those entering the trade, profession or calling in question has not actually risen at all.

All in all, an argument for a B.Sc. That way, you'll not be perceived as having taken the easy option, regardless of the accuracy of that perception.

Anyone who is not interested in other arts -- theatre, painting, whatever -- shouldn't be applying to degree in any fine art.

Cheers,

R.

 

[GSNfan]

Both law and economics are highly refined forms of BS...

That made me laugh.

Cheers.

 

[BillBingham2]

I would strongly recommend that you get a Bachelors in business rather than arts. For the good to average photographer a strong understanding of how business and finance (perhaps accounting) work is worth it's weight in gold. Now if you can do that while taking classes in photography (read double major perhaps) at a place with a good teacher (e.g. ISU) you will be ready to move to NYC and assist while you build and learn. There a many examples of masterful people (musicians, photographers, painters) who were on top of the world but signed away things in the wrong way and lost it all. A good business education is a great thing and if you can do a double major in Photography or Fine Art it should not cost you that much more. See about getting another Associates from our local community college in business, perhaps a years time or less then find a university where you can double major.

I think getting yourself to NYC (or another hub of the universe) where you can assist, find odd jobs and build a foundation of a career will pay off much better after you have a good understanding of business and photography.

There are so many great colleges that have super strengths in some areas that perhaps you want to take a couple of years and do a semester at RIT, University of Missouri, etc. I do not think that one school is the best at everything. A lot depends on where you style and passion lay.

You need general business, a great photography teacher to challenge you and some classes in areas of art and technology to make you think.

PM Bill Pierce to see what he thinks. One of RFFs many bright guys.

B2 (;->

 

[kevin m]

I graduated from Southern Illinois University Carbondale. Not exactly a glamorous location, but lots of natural beauty. Plus it's affordable, and the photo program is excellent.

As far as film goes they have, a gang silver darkroom for entry students, then private color and B&W darkrooms for anyone higher in the program. A C-41 processor and a small, but running E6 line. Multiple private film developing labs, and best of all a working 10x10 enlarger for those huge negatives!

Also their studio is full capable with a old, but respectable digital back, 2 cycs.

They also have a Coolscan 9000 or three, and Epson flatbeds, plus a bunch of Macs you probably already own.

For rental they have multiple monorail 4x5s, plus a Deardorff, X-Pan, Hasselblads, and some other stuff I don't remember. Most kids used their own cameras, save for the large format stuff. I bought a Hasselblad and a Deardorff while I was there.

Dan Overturf is the best professor I ever had. He WILL inspire you to go above and beyond what you thought was expected of you. Plus the quality of work from other students will keep you motivated to do better.

The best thing you can do right now is not come out of college in debt. I was able to and it was a huge advantage for me. Big schools that cost a lot of money have their advantages, which are mostly networking connections, but outside of the shrinking bubble that is the NYC photo world, that don't mean much.

Google SIUC Photography and send Dan Overturf an email. I'd advise a visit. It's one of the hidden gems of photo schools in the U.S.

x2. I graduated from SIU in 1997 and in hindsight I regret not double majoring in photography while I was there as the Photography department was first rate. I only took a handful of classes, but I still remember the faculty as being passionate and knowledgable photographers. Check it out.