Photography Economics

[Roger Hicks]

Even university darkrooms are problematic, but if the professors keep on the students about keep clean, they can be great. I was lucky enough to teach at a university with three Leitz enlargers among the couple of dozen others.

There are wet studio rentals near me, but they would run about 12k a year, 6k is possible, but not easy.

I have a two bedroom, but no water there, so really useless as a darkroom -- and it is full of bicycles.

So you get your priorities wrong...

Besides, some of the best prints I have ever seen were made in darkrooms without running water. Your point is?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Of course it is possible to make decent prints in a woodshed. I suppose one could wash prints in a clear stream. But there is not one running though my apartment.

Gezz!

Really?

No running water anywhere in the apartment?

Gosh.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Particular]

Of course it is possible to make decent prints in a woodshed. I suppose one could wash prints in a clear stream. But there is not one running though my apartment.

Gezz!

My parents live in a converted watermill. My first attempt to set up my own darkroom was in the former turbine room, which in fact has a stream running underneath. There is a big hole in the floor in the middle of the room, so you could in fact reach down and wash your prints in the stream. Unfortunately the water is not clear, but muddy orange from iron in the soil, so you would end up with 'not quite sepia' prints. It was mid winter at the time, freezing cold, so none of the baths were up to temperature. All my prints were flat and grey. I was really frustrated. I probably learnt something from the effort, but I can't really tell you what it was.

 

[Pioneer]

Even university darkrooms are problematic, but if the professors keep on the students about keep clean, they can be great. I was lucky enough to teach at a university with three Leitz enlargers among the couple of dozen others.

There are wet studio rentals near me, but they would run about 12k a year, 6k is possible, but not easy.

I have a two bedroom, but no water there, so really useless as a darkroom -- and it is full of bicycles.

I have converted a bedroom to a darkroom. No running water so I carry prints to and from the bathroom for developing in BTZS tubes. Not the most convenient, but it works.

 

[michaelwj]

I know this sounds almost a blasphemy on the RFF, but there are many of us who do not own a Leica digital or a 6k DSLR body. 🙂

Don't go to LUF then...

Cheers,
Michael

 

[paulfish4570]

snark city ... 🙁

 

[Roger Hicks]

. . . DUH! anything it possible -- if one is dedicated, and can live with the inconvenience. . . .

Quite. As we have agreed before, dedication is generally something of a prerequisite for art. But some people can't be bothered...

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I can only speak for myself, I could never consider producing less than the best prints, when I was selling.

I personally quit wet printing after I was a student, and used master printers. I am an awful color printer (although I did once print a color 6 panel print for a museum show), and could never have produced 24x36 Cibachromes myself. Probably mostly because I detest the darkroom experience, always have. But I had a fairly busy B&W darkroom in one of my lofts in the '80/'90s frequented by non-photographer friends. I was lucky in that case, I put in the plumbing so there was a drain between my bath and kitchen, and temp control. I built the sink from wood and fiberglass, something I would never do again -- stainless is now everywhere, cheap, as darkrooms are dismantled. Now is definitely the time to build if one has room, and a drain.

I don't personally know anyone (and the key word here is personally) who makes large color wet prints themselves. For one thing it would have totally ended my studio time, which I do enjoy.

I no longer show, no longer have representation, so have rather entered the Vivian Meyer mode of just making images for myself. Not sure what (or who) I would make a print for, other than casual ink jets. They are more than adequate even for casual sales or auctions.

Ah dedication? After visiting the Sebastião Salgado Genesis show recently I thought a lot about what dedication really is. I have known many people who are uber-dedicated and make nothing of value. One should make work from joy not physical dedication? Salgado appears to have a lot of joy. So if one finds they love the darkroom, then by all means build what can be built. And maybe become a master printer?

But no hobbyist should worry too much about dedication -- IMO they should be driven by what they truly enjoy, what lowers their blood pressure so to speak. These days I am a hobbyist -- so I do what I please, dedication be damned.

Were we talking only about colour?

Cheers,

R.

 

[jsrockit]

But no hobbyist should worry too much about dedication -- IMO they should be driven by what they truly enjoy, what lowers their blood pressure so to speak. These days I am a hobbyist -- so I do what I please, dedication be damned.

I agree, and say this often... dedication comes once you are having fun and can't help but do it because you enjoy it.

 

[Skiff]

Besides, some of the best prints I have ever seen were made in darkrooms without running water.

+1.
Running water is absolutely not needed in the darkroom.
It has no influence on quality at all if you have running water in your darkroom or not.

I've moved several times, also living in very big cities in normal flats. Always had my darkroom.
And I've never had running water in it.
Film development:
Since my start in self developing I am making that in the bath. Works perfectly.
Prints:
The last tray is one with water for a first short washing. I then take the print(s) out from that in a dry tray for transport, go the bath and there I make the final, archival washing of the print(s) in the shower.
Extremely easy , convenient, cost effective, and my prints have the best, archival quality (sold lots of them).

Concerning smell / odor in the darkroom:
I don't have that, because I use an odorless stop-bath based on citric acid, and odorless neutral fixer. Both is working excellently here in my darkrooms for years.
And developers generally don't smell.
And if you want to be extremely careful, just use a developer based on iso-ascorbate (Vitamin C), which are available e.g. from Moersch and Spur.

 

[Calzone]

snark city ... 🙁

Paul,

Snarky and arrogant. :bang:🙁😡

Cal

 

[Sparrow]

"Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice:
That alone should encourage the crew.
Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice:
What I tell you three times is true."

 

[Sparrow]

The crew was complete: it included a Boots—
A maker of Bonnets and Hoods—
A Barrister, brought to arrange their disputes—
And a Broker, to value their goods.

 

[Sparrow]

A Billiard-marker, whose skill was immense,
Might perhaps have won more than his share—
But a Banker, engaged at enormous expense,
Had the whole of their cash in his care.

 

[Calzone]

All I can say is that developing 100-150 rolls a month in my kitchen is not the most practical thing one can do. Basically my bathroom becomes a drying room that quickly fills up. I can't imagine printing prolifically or printing the size I want (large) in such a small apartment.

For me dedication has another spin because I defer my wet printing to when I can perform the enlargements without dealing with the compromises and limitations of space, logistics of a shared space. I am only able to develope film when my gal goes upstate to visit her family. For me a bathroom darkroom is far from optimum, and not really practical in my situation.

Questioning my dedication is an arrogant insult. Creatively I do what I can within my means and what is right for me. This does not mean that I should improvise a darkroom to feel worthy or to be considered a serious photographer.

Cal

 

[emraphoto]

i know some of the most dedicated photographers one could imagine. many of them have never developed a negative in their lives.

 

[Calzone]

I am starting a film project, I am planning on using my local CVS Pharmacy.

I know nuts. 🙂

Fred,

Nuts is good in my book. I should know because the things I do I know annoys people, and they are rather outspoken about it.

Funny thing how others impose their thinking, especially if one's thinking is novel, meaning different.

Also know that if one reads through this thread that one can spin it that this thread is really about digital and analog thinking, and a lot of crazy thoughts get projected.

Faulty logic:

If I have a darkroom everyone could or should have one. LOL; Another twist: if you have a darkroom suddenly you are a "dedicated" photographer, and if you are without one suddenly you are not. LOL. I guess I'm just a poser who wastes a lot of money. Double LOL.

If film was available at a discounted price for a long-long time over a period of a few years, it is deemed unsustainable, even though it was presented as a bargain to capitolize on. Another spin: If film was once less costly, then film now must be expensive.

Then there is the "Chicken Little" factor when someone kinda decides that this is about a film being dead or dying thread when its not. And then again film verses digital also rears it's ugly head.

I'm almost at the point for looking for intelligent life forms in an other solar system, because here on earth it seems intelligent life is almost non existant or at least is dying and soon will be extinct.

Anyways perhaps I'm the arrogant person here because I'm laughing at all this non-sense, the snarky remarks and the pure arrogance. Like I said, "There's a lot of entertainment value here."

Triple LOL.

For the record: I support analog thinking; I support digital thinking; but I don't like distorted use of analog and digital thinking to be snarky, arrogant, and be intolerant of others who are different or have their own struggle affording photograpgh within their own means. Through the use of analog and digital thinking what really is a displayed is rigid thinking that is a bit crazy in a bad-bad way.

Do I make sense or am I the crazy person here? Anyways doing something nutz to me is a good thing. Here I am trying to make sense out of non-sense. BTW I do appreciate the thoughful responses. They just aren't so funny. 😀

Cal

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

Try this for reassurance...

http://thecarrollforum.proboards.com/thread/59/boojum

Regards, David

 

[Roger Hicks]

Fred,

Nuts is good in my book. I should know because the things I do I know annoys people, and they are rather outspoken about it.

Funny thing how others impose their thinking, especially if one's thinking is novel, meaning different.

Also know that if one reads through this thread that one can spin it that this thread is really about digital and analog thinking, and a lot of crazy thoughts get projected.

Faulty logic:

If I have a darkroom everyone could or should have one. LOL; Another twist: if you have a darkroom suddenly you are a "dedicated" photographer, and if you are without one suddenly you are not. LOL. I guess I'm just a poser who wastes a lot of money. Double LOL.

If film was available at a discounted price for a long-long time over a period of a few years, it is deemed unsustainable, even though it was presented as a bargain to capitolize on. Another spin: If film was once less costly, then film now must be expensive.

Then there is the "Chicken Little" factor when someone kinda decides that this is about a film being dead or dying thread when its not. And then again film verses digital also rears it's ugly head.

I'm almost at the point for looking for intelligent life forms in an other solar system, because here on earth it seems intelligent life is almost non existant or at least is dying and soon will be extinct.

Anyways perhaps I'm the arrogant person here because I'm laughing at all this non-sense, the snarky remarks and the pure arrogance. Like I said, "There's a lot of entertainment value here."

Triple LOL.

For the record: I support analog thinking; I support digital thinking; but I don't like distorted use of analog and digital thinking to be snarky, arrogant, and be intolerant of others who are different or have their own struggle affording photograpgh within their own means. Through the use of analog and digital thinking what really is a displayed is rigid thinking that is a bit crazy in a bad-bad way.

Do I make sense or am I the crazy person here? Anyways doing something nutz to me is a good thing. Here I am trying to make sense out of non-sense. BTW I do appreciate the thoughful responses. They just aren't so funny. 😀

Cal

Dear Cal,

Yeah, probably. But who isn't?

You just prefer your version of crazy to other people's. Anything that makes you or anyone else question who is crazier is probably useful.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Pioneer]

Data from a 2014 U.S. Labor Report indicates two related stats: Photo Equipment prices are down -6.1%, but on the other hand Film and Photo Supplies are up +23.4%.

Last year KEH had a remarkable amount of surprise sales sent out via e-mail blasts. I took advantage of many and kinda loaded up the truck. I posted a thread, and at one point because the sales jumped from 15% off to 30% there was some joking about a 50% sale. Surprisingly like other rumors on RFF it became true: KEH had a 50% sale (which I somehow missed due to bad timing).

Meanwhile I definately see the prices of film going up, while even Leica offers some rather huge rebates on cameras.

Anyways we are seeing inflation and deflation at the same time here in the U.S., but I wonder what is happening to prices in Europe and Aisa as Europe faces deflation and China's economy slows.

When is the next shoe going to drop? Please only refer to either Photo equipment or film and photo supplies to stay on topic.

Cal

It seems that we may have gotten off topic. 😀