Photography theory

Ranchu said:
Now instead of talking about Sontag, we're talking about Mitch and I.
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I am asking that if you quote someone, you actually reply to some semblance of what they wrote.

That is hardly an unreasonable request. It's common courtesy, in fact.

Mitch's post was a significant and thoughtful contribution to this thread. I suggest that you read it again, and read your reply that quoted it, and see if you think that your reply was fair.
 
In this thread please avoid ad hominem criticisms and keep it friendly.
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This should not require stating but thanks for doing so, anyway.

EDIT: Perhaps we should all go a little further and accept that our point of view is not that of others?
 
Anyway, I think this is an important contribution to the thread. And it is not exclusionary or in any way dismissive.

malland said:
I agree with Ron (airfrogusmc) that the OP should read for himself or herself — and I am sure that the OP, like any reasonable person, can figure out which postings in this train wreck of a thread make sense and which don't.

To digress from the discussion on Susan Sontag for a minute, there are many ways to write about the visual arts, including photography. The best book that I read last year is TJ Clark's Picasso and Truth, which essentially contains an in-depth reading of five paintings completed before and after Cubism, terminating in a discussion of Guernica. Clark concentrates on the nature of the interior space in Picasso's paintings and how it develops — and how this view of reality relates to the Zeitgeist, expressed through references to some of the writings of Nietzsche and Wittgenstein. It's an excellent short book, whose look into the issues of space in painting that Picasso wrestled with should make you look with new eyes at use of space in your photography.

Although its language is not abstruse or difficult, it's not a book that can be read quickly because the density of ideas will make you slow down and think, which I think is a good thing. Some of the illustrations of the paintings are repeated several times in the book, so that the reader does not have constantly flip back and forth.

 Incidentally, in one the endnotes, Clark has a scathing criticism that, often writing on Picasso has focussed on celebrity gossip rather than real analysis — in a swipe at John Richardson's large (currently) three-tome biography. Richardson is easier to read, but writes precious little analytical about Picasso's painting, really nothing that has not been written elsewhere.

Coming back to Sontag, two issues have been bandied about: one is that she's a lousy writer and the other is that what she writes in On Photography is simply wrongheaded. A lot that has been said in this thread stems either from ignorance or simple prejudice. I have no reason to defend Sontag: although I mentioned that I read On Photography years ago and don't remember anything; after reading Suzie Linfield's essay, it seems to me that I've never read that book but only have some impressions from what others have written about it. Last night, I read three things that seem so me worthwhile to read if you want to have some idea of what Sontag wrote and how she wrote it.

First, here is a brief obituary in the Telegraph, published in 2004. Second, here is a 1995 Paris Review interview with Sontag, which provides an idea of her views on writing. And, third, here is an article by Sontag, titled Looking at War: Photography’s view of devastation and death, published in the New Yorker in 2002. In it she recants some of her views in On Photography and, in general, is dazzling in its intellect and expression — in other words, she's an excellent writer.

MITCH ALLAND/Potomac, MD
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Anyway, I think this is an important contribution to the thread. And it is not exclusionary or in any way dismissive.
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To be fair, I've just checked back and can't see anyone disagreeing with Mitch, since, as is usually the case, he's just talking plain good sense.
 
I beg to differ LazyHammock. There have been a large selection of texts and articles recommended throughout this thread.

However, while taking offense to one of the recommendations I actually failed to list my own personal recommendations:

American Photography; A Century of Images
Dorothea Lange; A Life Beyond Limits
Looking at Photographs
The Practice of Contemplative Photography
1000 Photo Icons
Vivian Maier: Street Photographer
The Ansel Adams Guide; Basic Techniques of Photography Books 1 & 2
On Being a Photographer
Genesis
Timothy Sullivan; The King Survey Photographs

And many more. You may notice that my personal preferences run toward photo collections. I love studying them and can re-read them over and over again.
 
LazyHammock said:
I also see that few people answered the OP's original question before indulging themselves in a philosophical discussion of "On Photography". Hopefully this did not crush the enthusiasm of a new member.
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Pioneer said:
I beg to differ LazyHammock. There have been a large selection of texts and articles recommended throughout this thread. However, while taking offense to one of the recommendations I actually failed to list my own personal recommendations: American Photography; A Century of Images Dorothea Lange; A Life Beyond Limits Looking at Photographs The Practice of Contemplative Photography 1000 Photo Icons Vivian Maier: Street Photographer The Ansel Adams Guide; Basic Techniques of Photography Books 1 & 2 On Being a Photographer Genesis Timothy Sullivan; The King Survey Photographs And many more. You may notice that my personal preferences run toward photo collections. I love studying them and can re-read them over and over again.
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Thank you Pioneer,
These suggestions are great and they are the reason I keep checking in on this thread. I would agree there gave been many great suggestions. I'm checking a number out. My complaint was that the majority of the threads recently were spent arguing about one book. I think it is a book worthy of its own thread based upon the discussion rather than hijacking the OPs original question. The OP did not ask "what do you think of Sontag". As a number of posters pointed out the OP could read "On Photography" and decide for his/her self.
Thanks
Nick
 
i can't say i've read anything of sontag's that was wonderfully written, but "regarding the pain of others" is more clearly written than "on photography," so there's that.
 
I also see that few people answered the OP's original question before indulging themselves in a philosophical discussion of "On Photography". Hopefully this did not crush the enthusiasm of a new member.
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Welcome to the real world of "the forum". :)

This sort of thing happens because people are free (up to the tolerance of the moderators and the head barkeep) to write what they wish. Some of us hold strong opinions and a few write in a style that appears aggressive when it appears on the screen, although the poster may not have intended such.

Look back at page 1 and you'll notice that we gave a wide variety of suggestions, all of which are entirely valid. Unfortunately, some people came across as making ex-cathedra statements and others took exception, so the game was afoot.

On the other hand, these "warm" discussions do, I think, make us all think about our own opinions and introduce us to those of others, even if we do, self included, sometimes get a little silly. ;)

It's kind of like a chat down the pub, minus the drink, great food and ambience...

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malland said:
... EDIT ...

Coming back to Sontag, two issues have been bandied about: one is that she's a lousy writer and the other is that what she writes in On Photography is simply wrongheaded. A lot that has been said in this thread stems either from ignorance or simple prejudice. I have no reason to defend Sontag: although I mentioned that I read On Photography years ago and don't remember anything, after reading Suzie Linfield's essay, it seems to me that I've never read that book but only have some impressions from what others have written about it. Last night, I read three things that seem to me worthwhile to read if you want to have some idea of what Sontag wrote and how she wrote it.

First, here is a brief obituary in the Telegraph, published in 2004. Second, here is a 1995 Paris Review interview with Sontag, which provides an idea of her views on writing. And, third, here is an article by Sontag, titled Looking at War: Photography’s view of devastation and death, published in the New Yorker in 2002. In it she recants some of her views in On Photography and, in general, is dazzling in intellect and expression — in other words, she's an excellent writer.

MITCH ALLAND/Potomac, MD
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Well that was a more extensive read than I expected, anyway it would seem despite the effort I am still in the ignorant camp. I still find her writing needlessly complex, that and her tendency to showboat the depth and diversity her own intellect with endless references makes reading it a real chore for me. Yet even with all of that she produces some jarring sentences "this (images of violence in battle) makes all of us voyeurs, weather we like it or not." is just one that I came across.

So sadly Mitch I'll have to continue to disagree with you. To my way of thinking the whole point of an academic critic is to do the reading, see the evidence, reach a conclusion then present it in a coherent way. I still think she is too ready to put the demonstration of her own intellect before the enlightenment of her readers. Earlier I referenced Mary Beard as a paragon in the art of academic writing, everything Susan Sontag is not, sorry
 
Sparrow said:
Well that was a more extensive read than I expected, anyway it would seem despite the effort I am still in the ignorant camp. I still find her writing needlessly complex, that and her tendency to showboat the depth and diversity her own intellect with endless references makes reading it a real chore for me. Yet even with all of that she produces some jarring sentences "this (images of violence in battle) makes all of us voyeurs, weather we like it or not." is just one that I came across...
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The sentence that you show as a quote doesn't exist: here's a real quote of the whole paragraph, to give the context:

"To shudder at Goltzius’s rendering, in his etching “The Dragon Devouring the Companions of Cadmus” (1588), of a man’s face being chewed off his head is very different from shuddering at a photograph of a First World War veteran whose face has been shot away. One horror has its place in a complex subject—figures in a landscape—that displays the artist’s skill of eye and hand. The other is a camera’s record, from very near, of a real person’s unspeakably awful mutilation; that and nothing else. An invented horror can be quite overwhelming. (I, for one, find it difficult to look at Titian’s great painting of the flaying of Marsyas, or, indeed, at any picture of this subject.) But there is shame as well as shock in looking at the closeup of a real horror. Perhaps the only people with the right to look at images of suffering of this extreme order are those who could do something to alleviate it—say, the surgeons at the military hospital where the photograph was taken—or those who could learn from it. The rest of us are voyeurs, whether we like it or not."

I don't see the last sentence as jarring in terms of exposition: it follows from the argument that she's making. In any case to damn a long essay for one sentence, even if it really were prolix or stilted or inelegant, is simply flippant — as is the statement that she's showing off the "depth and diversity of her own intellect" when she's making an interesting and well-documented case in a discussion covering a long historical period. If you find her writing in this essay complex, I would suggest that this is your problem and not Sontag's writing, which is clear and effective.

MITCH ALLAND/Potomac, MD
Download links for book project pdf files
Chiang Tung Days
Tristes Tropiques
Bangkok Hysteria
Paris au rythme de Basquiat and Other Poems
 
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