jbielikowski
Jan Bielikowski
#181818 but black is not bad either.
Photography website background color
- Thread starter Lauffray
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Sparrow
Veteran
I don't think that applies ... I understand well the difference between additive (reflective) and subtractive (transmitted) colour, but surely by the time the light reaches the eye it's the same however it's been constructed? although I imagine transmitted light has the greater gamut.
As for the background, well black is nice for heavy metal and goths fans, grey is nice for accountants ... and white, while not perfect is the best we have ...
... and as others have said centred text is OK for poetry and memorials, and anything that moves or blinks is wrong on every level
Photo_Smith
Well-known
The problem is the eye is adaptive and an effect called simultaneous contrast can fool the eye into falsely identifying a tone as lighter or darker depending on the tone surrounding it.
if you care to follow this link:
http://www.pbase.com/mark_antony/image/70646869
You'll see that one of the brown squares looks a different colour because of the adaptive (local inhibition) effect.
I would like to post some more images and info on the theory of tone reproduction, but it seems in this thread images are not welcome.
Here though is a link to Michel Eugène Chevreul's original book if you're interested in the effects of simultaneous contrast
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=l91OAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Michel+Eugène+Chevreul&hl=en
if you care to follow this link:
http://www.pbase.com/mark_antony/image/70646869
You'll see that one of the brown squares looks a different colour because of the adaptive (local inhibition) effect.
I would like to post some more images and info on the theory of tone reproduction, but it seems in this thread images are not welcome.
Here though is a link to Michel Eugène Chevreul's original book if you're interested in the effects of simultaneous contrast
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=l91OAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Michel+Eugène+Chevreul&hl=en
daveleo
what?
Is it possible (say with JavaScript) to allow the website viewer to select the background color?
Sparrow
Veteran
... which is why a grey TV screens appear to go black when they're on ... and introducing colour combinations makes it even more complex
Photo_Smith
Well-known
Partly not so much with the TV (there are other reasons for that), but with respect to your question:
"surely by the time the light reaches the eye it's the same however it's been constructed?"
Is actually incorrect wrt to surround colour/density, what counts is in the processing by the brain.
Black surrounds give more tonal separation (in lower tones)and make colour easier to judge, white compresses lower tones, contrast will also appear different, you may need to adjust images depending on how they are viewed.
The image I pointed too will work in monochrome as well:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Simultaneous_Contrast.svg
"surely by the time the light reaches the eye it's the same however it's been constructed?"
Is actually incorrect wrt to surround colour/density, what counts is in the processing by the brain.
Black surrounds give more tonal separation (in lower tones)and make colour easier to judge, white compresses lower tones, contrast will also appear different, you may need to adjust images depending on how they are viewed.
The image I pointed too will work in monochrome as well:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Simultaneous_Contrast.svg
Sparrow
Veteran
... yes I understand that it is all perceptual, I did Rood and Munsell at college ... but then when I thought about it in order to be perceived as say "red" the light entering the eye must be the same wavelength and amplitude however it got there. no?
I've just been playing with a white screen, a piece of white paper and a desk-lamp ... and I not sure
Photo_Smith
Well-known
No not quite. the wavelength is irrelevant to a degree, human perception is the key thing here.
So as you can see with the first colour image I posted the colour squares have the same RGB values, yet one looks darker-that effect happens in your brain, the light falling on your retina is exactly the same.
Here's a nice flash movie showing the effect in mono:
http://web.mit.edu/persci/gaz/gaz-teaching/flash/contrast-movie.swf
So yes the surround changes the perception of the density of the grey changes; and darker borders make lower tones easier to separate for the same reason.
You'll need to process your images to take that into account should you want to display on white.
Sparrow
Veteran
Yes, as I said, I really do understand the concept of Complementary colours when used in combination, the concept of the natural order of colour, and persistence of vision. I also have a good grasp of gamut and contrast in visual perception.
I was musing on the implications of reflective and transmitted light to the viewer, and what if any impact that would have in designing a website from the viewers' POV
angelog
formerly agianelo
For me Black is sort of anti-web or old-fashioned. I always choose a black skin or black background when I have the choice.
Angelo
Angelo
Photo_Smith
Well-known
Which I answered.
But again in case you missed it. A white background will compress the lower tones and favour the upper band, black will do the opposite, this will happen with both transmissive and reflective material, although the white background will make a much poorer matt for transmissive reproductions because of the overall lightening of mid tones ; that is subject dependent (which was answered in a previous post)
There is quite a bit of scientific material on this mostly citing movie and slide projection, and how having black borders or white changed the (perceived) tonal values. If you look at transparency sleeves for large format you'll see they are black–that is no accident.
So to recap
You will have to be mindful of the altering of (perceived) tonal values when using a sub optimal (for normal tones) fffff background, and process your images accordingly. Black backgrounds don't work so well with high key or predominantly light subjects, but are better for an average toned subject.
At least according to the science in the 'Theory of tone reproduction' but hey try putting them on a matt in PS see which you like, you may have to make two versions.
Lauffray
Invisible Cities
Yes it's pretty easy, you can switch stylesheets dynamically, but I'm not a fan of these methods
daveleo
what?
Yeh, I was just messing with it. Can actually be done in the BODY using one HTML line per color.
Interesting, but the option buttons start distracting the viewer from your pictures. Fun though..
Sparrow
Veteran
I really sorry I'm obviously not making myself clear, I really do understand all of that and it is not what I am talking about.
If you recall in an earlier post someone said "You folks *do* realize a backlit screen is different than a reflected-light page of paper, right..?" I was musing upon that statement, not on your assertions regarding colour perception and theory.
As I am sure you will know there are two ways of demonstrating and creating colour, those being additive and subtractive colour theory, or reflective and transmitted if you prefer, it is that I was considering.
The chap in post 18 considered the two types of colour would be perceived differently by the viewer, that is when viewed as a matted print or as image on a website background. I initially agreed with that statement, but then doing a few thought experiments and playing with a white screen, a piece of white paper and a desk lamp I am not convinced there is any difference, it is that I was thinking about ...
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