Photos from a Maori party

[Dunn]

While traveling in New Zealand I recently went to party with a lot of Maoris. It was a very interesting party.

Apparently, they like to get really wasted. There was a fight between two women while I was there, and they both ended up a little bloody.

Also, they don't really care to be photographed. At first I was just taking some photos, but some of them told me not to or that they didn't really like it. One lady said some Maoris will "smash your camera." They were nice about it though. So, later I had to be really sneaky about it and shoot some from the hip. I eventually just put my camera away because it still seemed to get me some bad looks even though I wasn't making it obvious.

You can see them on my blog: http://beninnewzealand.tumblr.com/

Enjoy.

 

[Pablito]

Well, if I were one of the Maori guys at that party and I saw this post and your blog I would be pretty disgusted. So condescending.

 

[JHP]

Well, if I were one of the Maori guys at that party and I saw this post and your blog I would be pretty disgusted. So condescending.

I agree. 🙄 Constantly referring to them as 'maoris' is strange to me as well.

Nice photos though. Just a pity about your captions sounding as if you are observing wild animals or something.

 

[crf529]

I'm not sure what you were trying to achieve with the photos (they were kind enough to have you to their house and they asked not be photographed, yet you seemed to persist, this is how good photographers wind up with the bad names of others). And the commentary seems somewhat disjointed and judgemental without a proper understanding.

 

[DamenS]

Wow - this is so condescending !! Apparently, many people like getting drunk and many of us don't like being photographed by a stranger whilst we do so. You are truly lucky you didn't get smashed, let alone your "sneaky" camera !! Could your photo captions possibly be made MORE judgemental in tone ?

I just read through your partner's "blog" of the night and that was just as bad if not worse. Seriously, people are hospitable enough to invite you to their own home for a party, and this is the way you treat them ?

But at least, as I read your partner's blog further, you are not only targetting Maoris - you are also not adverse to poking fun at people with mental difficulties too:




"On the way up we met a crazy guy named Peter Davis who told us that he was a prophet and he needed to tell us to truth about the world. He went on and on for about 30 minutes to us about how (this is no exaggeration)… Jesus has a pact with aliens to destroy the world with nukes and homosexuals were who did 9-11 and all the Christians will ride the great mushroom cloud to hell but they will think it is heaven and so on….

It was crazy. I took some photos of him which you can see above. He was hairy and stinky and just whacked out of his mind, haha. Oh, but he said he can tell us this for sure:"



I realise it is hypocritical of me to judge you guys for being so judgemental of, and condescending to, other people, but in this particular case I have decided I am OK with my own hypocrisy As your partner says about the Maori Party, "what a strange world". Indeed !!

 

[LeicaFan]

Not to jump on the bashing bandwagon, but if you knew that these people do not like to be photographed and some even made comments about it (e.g., smashing your camera), why would you want to continue taking pictures of them? That's just awkward.

I agree that your tone (as well as that of your partner) sounds condescending.

 

[Dunn]

I honestly didn't realize that I was being condescending and the like. I hardly made comments on the photos and said things such as "a very chill guy" and "everyone was just sitting, drinking, and having a fun time."

I appreciated them having me over, and I was enjoying myself so I wanted to get some photos to remember. They were really cool about it, but they just said that a lot of Maoris don't like it, but they were pretty cool. But I put my camera away after a little while. I just wanted to get a few more photos because it was just a great experience.

I keep saying "maoris" because that's how they refer to themselves as a group. I listed the names that I know/remember.

I respect the criticism here. I just didn't realize that is sounded that way.

And the "smashing of the camera" wasn't directed to me. It was said as referring to some would smash it if they didn't like you taking their photo.

 

[DamenS]

Yes you did say that someone was a "very chill guy", but you also said he was "drinking CHEAP beer" (my capitalisation) and "wearing socks with flip-flops on" (the clear inference being that this is not to your taste in "fashion"). Now "cheap" is a subjective term of course, but when taken in conjunction with the other things you said, a very clear pattern emerges:

"He was drinking his beer with his daughter sitting surrounded by beer cans and such." It is clear you sit in judgement of this behaviour.

There were also several times that either you, or your partner, referred to people being drunk and you quoted the time (you didn't quote the time on your other photos) - with the inference seeming that it was too early in the day for a NORMAL person to be drunk. As your partner is the one dishing out the most obvious judgements in her blog, I will cut you some slack here, as all you said was:

"It’s about 3pm and she was a little drunk"

Honestly, I get that you do not know how or why people have thought you to be condescending (other than the obvious rudeness and arrogance in being willing, and believing yourself able, to take "sneaky" photos after a clear directive not to when you were the guest in someone else's home), but maybe my pointing some of these things out will help ellucidate you. Saying someone is a "chill guy" and a raging, cheap alcoholic with bad fashion sense (no, you didn't even nearly say this - I am exaggerating wildly so you will understand the point) is not a comment where I would say - oh that's nice of him - he said the guy was "chill".

As to "I hardly made comments on the photos", that is irrelevant. See how few words were required from yourself for all of us to reach the same conclusions about your condescension ? The number of words doesn't matter. People can judge tone based on very few words.

 

[Dunn]

Wow - this is so condescending !! Apparently, many people like getting drunk and many of us don't like being photographed by a stranger whilst we do so. You are truly lucky you didn't get smashed, let alone your "sneaky" camera !! Could your photo captions possibly be made MORE judgemental in tone ?

I just read through your partner's "blog" of the night and that was just as bad if not worse. Seriously, people are hospitable enough to invite you to their own home for a party, and this is the way you treat them ?

But at least, as I read your partner's blog further, you are not only targetting Maoris - you are also not adverse to poking fun at people with mental difficulties too:




"On the way up we met a crazy guy named Peter Davis who told us that he was a prophet and he needed to tell us to truth about the world. He went on and on for about 30 minutes to us about how (this is no exaggeration)… Jesus has a pact with aliens to destroy the world with nukes and homosexuals were who did 9-11 and all the Christians will ride the great mushroom cloud to hell but they will think it is heaven and so on….

It was crazy. I took some photos of him which you can see above. He was hairy and stinky and just whacked out of his mind, haha. Oh, but he said he can tell us this for sure:"



I realise it is hypocritical of me to judge you guys for being so judgemental of, and condescending to, other people, but in this particular case I have decided I am OK with my own hypocrisy As your partner says about the Maori Party, "what a strange world". Indeed !!

We really aren't trying to "poke fun." As far as her blog goes, she pretty much just said things exactly how they happened. I'm not saying it was worded perfectly, but definitely wasn't meant disrespectfully.

And the guy talking about Jesus seriously didn't seem mentally handicap. He was just a guy with an out-there belief.

The "what a strange world" comment, I believe is in reference to how many people we have been meeting and staying with for a while and then we will probably never see them again. As she talked about in the previous paragraph. Not in reference to the Maoris.

 

[DamenS]

Oh - and my previous point is totally ignoring your gross generalisations about Maori in the first post of this blog (They like to get really wasted" and "they don't like having photos taken"). These comments apply just as well to many non-Maori people and it's probably fair to suggest these things are not entirely inculcated in the culture of all Maori peoples. Hell, I've even seen fights between non-Maori women before !

 

[DamenS]

We really aren't trying to "poke fun." As far as her blog goes, she pretty much just said things exactly how they happened. I'm not saying it was worded perfectly, but definitely wasn't meant disrespectfully.

HMMN ... "hairy, stinky and just whacked out of his mind" and making fun of all he said would happen ... How could that NOT be meant disrespectfully ? If it isn't, I would suggest your partner has failed to convey the tone of respect she, ahem "intended" quite dramatically !!

 

[pakeha]

OK, yes you are going to get a bit of a `smashing' with your post.
And you are not the first, nor will you be the last to be a little, ah, shall we say un thinking. yeah that will do.
Just don`t go taking photos in Pakistan/Afghanistan with a simalar attitude.
Maori are a very hospitable bunch and some don`t take life too seriously. Yep they also like cheap beer and can be very casual in the footwear department. Designer Italian shoes not there thing, in fact the white mans idea of capitalism is not really their thing so as a North American you were very lucky to even get invited...considering recent economic issues😉

You had a good time and they would be pleased about that...and actually quite understanding about your choice of words..they are words/phrases that are not new to them, how ever there would be much sadness and disappointment that in 2011 the same exits, but do not feel bad about this because many of my countrymen [ and woman] if reading this would not see anything wrong.
Regards
CW

 

[Dunn]

Yes you did say that someone was a "very chill guy", but you also said he was "drinking CHEAP beer" (my capitalisation) and "wearing socks with flip-flops on" (the clear inference being that this is not to your taste in "fashion"). Now "cheap" is a subjective term of course, but when taken in conjunction with the other things you said, a very clear pattern emerges:

"He was drinking his beer with his daughter sitting surrounded by beer cans and such." It is clear you sit in judgement of this behaviour.

There were also several times that either you, or your partner, referred to people being drunk and you quoted the time (you didn't quote the time on your other photos) - with the inference seeming that it was too early in the day for a NORMAL person to be drunk. As your partner is the one dishing out the most obvious judgements in her blog, I will cut you some slack here, as all you said was:

"It’s about 3pm and she was a little drunk"

Honestly, I get that you do not know how or why people have thought you to be condescending (other than the obvious rudeness and arrogance in being willing, and believing yourself able, to take "sneaky" photos after a clear directive not to when you were the guest in someone else's home), but maybe my pointing some of these things out will help ellucidate you. Saying someone is a "chill guy" and a raging, cheap alcoholic with bad fashion sense (no, you didn't even nearly say this - I am exaggerating wildly so you will understand the point) is not a comment where I would say - oh that's nice of him - he said the guy was "chill".

As to "I hardly made comments on the photos", that is irrelevant. See how few words were required from yourself for all of us to reach the same conclusions about your condescension ? The number of words doesn't matter. People can judge tone based on very few words.

Okay. Well, I apologize if you guys reached this from my comments. I'll edit them.

About the guy drinking the beer: I was just stating what he was doing/wearing. I didn't feel like the socks with sandals comment was negative. I actually thought it made it seem like a really cool guy. I meant "cheap beer" just as in that he was just cool drinking his cheap beer. Just like people drink pbr.

I'll try to fix it all.

Like I said, I had a great experience and thought everyone was really nice and interesting. I don't look down on any of them. I wanted the photos to show how cool everyone was and what a good time everyone was having.

Also, I meant the drunk comment about the group of people we were with. (I can see that can be misconstrued.)

 

[pakeha]

btw, The plural of Maori is in fact ..wait for it...Maori ,


and a pakeha is a white NZer...wink

 

[JHP]

Stop talking about the Maori this way. They are people just like you or anyone else. It's SO offensive the way you are generalizing them as 'the maoris' etc. I can't believe you this isn't screaming out to you in your captions.

 

[Dunn]

Stop talking about the Maori this way. They are people just like you or anyone else. It's SO offensive the way you are generalizing them as 'the maoris' etc. I can't believe you this isn't screaming out to you in your captions.

Like I said, I think they are great. I had a great time hanging out with them. I was say "Maori" because that's what they kept saying about themselves. The girl we stayed with would literally say, "Maori" referring to herself and others. So, I just used it the same.

She even said, "I'm going to take you to a Maori party." So, I begin to use that as a way to describe the party.

 

[pakeha]

Dunn, the images are quite an honest record of how life goes for many here. And they are good images. The comments with the images are not offensive, however i did not read the blog.

Dunn, is correct, Maori will refer to themselves as Maori, Maoris or other terms depending on the situation and what they feel like saying. Not all Maori are as thin skinned as some pakehas....🙂)

 

[t.s.k.]

Tough crowd.

We all struggle to be tactful in our writing, sometimes we succeed and sadly other times we don't.

You're a lucky man...NZ is #1 on my to do list!

 

[back alley]

lots of pc judgements going on around here...