Picture request; zorki/fed 1 open shutters

[merick]

Im working on a zorki 1 and need a picture of where the shutter curtan edges are in relation to the film window with the shutter open (shutter release held down on bulb setting) , especially if your example is know to have accurate speed settings. This can be accomplished with an empty camera, just remove the lens.
Thanks

 

[KnipsOmat]

I'm not sure I understand what you are looking for...

On a working Zorki-1, you won't see anything of the shutter curtain edges with shutter fired on B and shutter release button still hold.

The first curtain will have travelled all across the film window and will be vanished to the right side. The second curtain will still be in the starting position and not come into view until you release the shutter button.

The film window is completely open. If you'd take a photo in this position, you'd not see the shutter curtain edges on it.

 

[merick]

The curtains will be not over or covering the window, but their edges will be some distance from the edge of the open film window. What are these distances?

 

[tunalegs]

May I ask what you're trying to find out by observing this?

 

[nhchen]

I seem to remember it was approx 2 or 3mm for leica style shutters.

Nathan

 

[merick]

I am trying to replace the shutter curtains and get them positioned correctly so that timing can be adjusted with spring tension. Previous attempts are beyond the range of spring adjustment and I had no clues to proper position left in my example.

1 Do you have an operational fed or zorki 1 known to take good pictures? If "yes" continue.
2 Is there currently film in it? If "no" continue.
3 Remove the lens
4 Hold shutter open with bulb setting
5 Observe position of edged of two shutter curtains in relation to film window or top and bottom light shields or any other objective information.
6 Report these observations or post a picture in a reply to this thread.

 

[MikeDimit]

Have you listed this http://rangefinder.ru/manual/books/Maizenberg_Remont_Fotoapparatov.pdf

or after page 72 http://rangefinder.ru/download/M_F_Yakovlev_Remont_fotoapparatov.pdf

 

[pete hogan]

Merick, my data: two Zorki 1c cameras. A 1954 which is in Russia now getting new shutter curtains. The other is a nice 1953 used regularly. There's film in it, but I let a couple of frames go in order to have a good look with the shutter tripped on Z. I don't want to stick a rule in there, so the dimensions are estimates.

Viewing from the front (drum on the left, roller on the right) the curtain edge on the left is about 1mm left of the film window left edge. The curtain edge on the right is even with the film window right edge.

 

[RichL]

The curtains will be not over or covering the window, but their edges will be some distance from the edge of the open film window. What are these distances?

My Fed 1 works just fine and shows no curtain edges when open.

 

[merick]

Thanks everyone, especially Pete and his lost frame. I got new curtains in and everything back together. My home made speed tester showed the settings pretty close without excessive spring tension. Fingers crossed for the test roll.

 

[pete hogan]

Good work, merick. Hope the test roll goes well.

 

[ZorkiKat]

FWIW the closing curtain (N.2) edge, when the shutter is open at "B" is 2 or 3mm from the edge of the film gate frame. Whether its 2 or 3mm doesn't seem to matter. In intact Zorki or FED cameras -whose shutters appear to be original- there is no consistent measure. It's between 2-3mm.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

I seem to remember it was approx 2 or 3mm for leica style shutters.

Nathan

+ 1,

I replaced quite some curtains on Zorki's, Fed's and Barnack Leica's and they all use a space of about 2,5 mm

The curtain edge on the right is even with the film window right edge.

Hmm... that could be very critical because in that case when triggered, the curtains will overlap but the start of overlap will be at the edge of the filmgate. This might cause false light coming in on the film from the overlap e.g. when strong sunlight is shining into the camera. This could also occur when winding the shutter. It is therefore safer to have the overlap about 2 mm past the filmgate.

 

[pete hogan]

+ 1,

I replaced quite some curtains on Zorki's, Fed's and Barnack Leica's and they all use a space of about 2,5 mm

Hmm... that could be very critical because in that case when triggered, the curtains will overlap but the start of overlap will be at the edge of the filmgate. This might cause false light coming in on the film from the overlap e.g. when strong sunlight is shining into the camera. This could also occur when winding the shutter. It is therefore safer to have the overlap about 2 mm past the filmgate.

Thanks, Ron. I had expected a little more space, so I fired it a couple more times. But it rests right at the window edge consistently. And the curtains look firm. So far this nice camera has exposed ok, and we generally have strong light in SoCal. If the exposure seems to change, then it will go off to Oleg. The other more heavily used 1c is with Oleg now for curtain replacement.

 

[merick]

When I was working on mine I attached the spring rollers to their respective ribbons and curtain first, and with things in place it was easy to attach the ribbons to their rollers in the fired position for the opening curtain.

The closing shutter was a bit trickier, aligning it in the unfired position, the end where it would be attached would be rolled under itself, so I aligned it with the edge of the film window and made some small marks with a colored pencil on the drum and shutter. Then I glued it in place so the marks lined up. But because the shutter had wound over itself when assembled the drum is slightly larger making the leading edge 2mm from the edge of the film window.

Other notes; A leg of the speed selector was dragging on the frame top, so I shortened it on a whet stone maybe 0.5 mm. Also if anyone has followed from my old thread and original attempt, I put a small mystery washer at the bottom of each roller and the compound roller.

Test roll in the lab-fingers crossed.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

When I was working on mine I attached the spring rollers to their respective ribbons and curtain first, and with things in place it was easy to attach the ribbons to their rollers in the fired position for the opening curtain.

The closing shutter was a bit trickier, aligning it in the unfired position, the end where it would be attached would be rolled under itself, so I aligned it with the edge of the film window and made some small marks with a colored pencil on the drum and shutter. Then I glued it in place so the marks lined up. But because the shutter had wound over itself when assembled the drum is slightly larger making the leading edge 2mm from the edge of the film window.

Other notes; A leg of the speed selector was dragging on the frame top, so I shortened it on a whet stone maybe 0.5 mm. Also if anyone has followed from my old thread and original attempt, I put a small mystery washer at the bottom of each roller and the compound roller.

Test roll in the lab-fingers crossed.

Only the position of the attachments for both ribbons and second curtain on the drum are critical. Where you attach the first curtain and the ribbons on the rollers is not/less critical. The tricky bit is to get the curtains exactly in parallel position at a right angle. Some use a little self made little instrument to get this job right - sort of little ruler which holds the curtain back when the ribbons are pulled straight..... indeed hard to describe how it works in practise :-(

Btw from what you describe it sounds as if you are installing curtains and ribbons in a still assembled camera.

Btw I have never found any washers under rollers in Leica's, Zorki's or Feds (apart from the little "rings"or "tubes"). The only washers found where on top off and under the drum.

Thanks, Ron. I had expected a little more space, so I fired it a couple more times. But it rests right at the window edge consistently. And the curtains look firm. So far this nice camera has exposed ok, and we generally have strong light in SoCal. If the exposure seems to change, then it will go off to Oleg. The other more heavily used 1c is with Oleg now for curtain replacement.

Thank you Pete: indeed if it works you should leave it as it is - very nice to have a good working zorki / fed!

 

[merick]

Not totally assembled, just enough to hold the rollers in place so I could position things. In my previous attempt I tried to glue everything together by replicating what I had removed, with everything apart. That did not work at all. This time I tried have things in the proper position when I glued the shutters to the compound drum and spring rollers, or at least get some clues. After I got that information on what it should look like, that plan worked much better.

The washers appeared as if by magic, I have no idea where they originally came from. But there were 3, one for each spring roller and one for the drum, and I figured gravity will cause most friction on the bottom.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

The washers appeared as if by magic, I have no idea where they originally came from. But there were 3, one for each spring roller and one for the drum, and I figured gravity will cause most friction on the bottom.

they all might be coming from the drum, 1 from under the drum and 2 at the top....or vice versa 🙂

Perhaps some photos to share for us from you work during restoration?

 

[merick]

Got my test roll back, and the pictures came out good, mostly;

1 The film I used was pretty old (200 Kodak ?) and the prints were dim and had a blue cast to them.
2 The frame spacing issue on the prints, some ok progressing to half a frame on a print.

So I got some new fuji 200 which is pretty cheap here and in the future will only get film processed and scan it. But I know it works now.