Pixii Monochrome / Color

[CameraQuest]

The Pixii turns out both Color AND Monochrome raw files.

So essentially each Pixii Color is also a Pixii Monochrome

No idea how its done, but since Leica doesn't offer a dual color / monochrome, I guess it's not that easy to do.

It's amazing to me that a new camera maker can offer dual monochrome / color raw output right off the starting line.

 

[agentlossing]

I'd be really curious to learn how that's done! I feel like rangefinders, with their slower pace, would lend themselves very well to something like a Sigma Foveon sensor, and while it hasn't been done yet, I think Foveon sensors should put out a sort of monochrome top layer file. If the first layer of photosites was monochrome to capture luminosity, with RGB layers below it, the output could be really interesting.

Still hoping someone puts a Foveon sensor in a rangefinder. I think Pixii could benefit from putting out some different types of sensor/shutter units for those of us who aren't so much looking for a global shutter on a 12MP APS-C.

 

[loranger]

Actually the answer can be found here https://www.35mmc.com/08/06/2020/pixii-model-a1112-a-primer/

I quote:
"Pixii can be shot in either colour or black & white.

If you set Pixii to B&W and DNG, that’s what you get, monochrome DNGs that can’t be switched back to colour later."

So Pixii doesn't provide a real monochrome DNG file but a DNG file with a monochrome embedded color profile, somehow a reminder that the picture was shot to be b&w.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I believe you could do this via Pixel Shifting. Shift a Bayer pattern sensor, take a second image- you now have a photosite that has seen two colors of light. Shift it up and over- take a third image- now all have seen 3 colors of light.

I'm not sure what Pixii does - but they can integrate multiple exposures in firmware.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Actually the answer can be found here https://www.35mmc.com/08/06/2020/pixii-model-a1112-a-primer/

I quote:
"Pixii can be shot in either colour or black & white.

If you set Pixii to B&W and DNG, that’s what you get, monochrome DNGs that can’t be switched back to colour later."

So Pixii doesn't provide a real monochrome DNG file but a DNG file with a monochrome embedded color profile, somehow a reminder that the picture was shot to be b&w.

Cute.
And makes sense with low res files this camera produce. No reason for JPEG1 in camera. I liked small DNG from M8 sensor.

 

[Corran]

If it's just forcing the DNG to be grayscale and then deleting the color info that is a really dumb setting and literally pointless.

 

[olakiril]

Any updates on this camera?

I hear that a new sensor might be coming is that true?

 

[Larry Cloetta]

Any updates on this camera?

I hear that a new sensor might be coming is that true?

Only 8 years out of date instead of 12?

 

[olakiril]

Only 8 years out of date instead of 12?

8 instead of 12 would make a huge difference 😉

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXG_s4mahSI&feature=emb_logo

 

[olakiril]

Here is another review from few months ago:

https://www.dearsusan.net/2020/09/17/1041-important-camera-review-pixii-dust-for-the-industry/

Again, he talks about multiple upgrades coming soon.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The reviewer seems very taken with this camera, but we've heard things like :
"More important to financial good sense, the upgradeability of this camera makes it future proof. Put differently, this could be the last body you buy. Every few years, you might want to change the sensor and processor, for example. I’ve been pestering poor David for a CCD ever since this evolution path has been on the table �� Apparently, though, there are no more CCD sensors available reliably today. But there are plenty of other interesting propositions and it’s fair to say the current sensor brings much of the CCD goodness of yore with it."

The Leica M8 was introduced with the notion of perpetually upgrading the sensor and electronics. "Would be nice, Not going to happen".

"'While other digital cameras quickly become outdated and are replaced by newer models, our new concept extends the value retention that stands for the Leica brand," said Steven K. Lee, CEO of Leica Camera AG. He promises that the upgrade program will be ongoing, and new developments are in the works, possibly including upgrades to the imaging sensor. Digital cameras that are two or three years old are now considered out of date, so many consumers would rather trash an old camera than refurbish it. Leica’s new perpetual upgrade program is designed to put fresh technology in the original 10.5-megapixel M8 camera body; this is a nice spin on recycling."

A 10.5MPixel CCD based camera. Mine is still going strong, but Leica never did come through with updating the sensor.

 

[olakiril]

"Would be nice, Not going to happen".

Yep I agree. Even the well designed Ricoh GXR couldn't make modularity sustainable.

For the PIXII I am much more interested in their camera once they have upgraded the sensor. I dig the global shutter, but $3.5K for an old APS-C sensor is just quite a bit over my threshold. I mean, if my $200 X-Pro1 can make better pictures, true rangefinder is just not worth it.

 

[james.liam]

Perhaps, but the M8 was more a β-tester/proof of concept than a fully realized product.
15 years have passed since then.

 

[olakiril]

Mine is still going strong, but Leica never did come through with updating the sensor.

They had their hands full with M9 "updates" :angel:

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The Pixii uses a 1000mah battery. The M8 uses an 1860mah battery, and you can easily replace it.

Double the pixels on the sensor, increase the processing, increase the storage- you need a bigger battery. It will not fit into the stylish camera body. If you buy this camera- buy it based on current specifications. Don't fall for the wishful thinking of someone that does not know the technology.

(Edited- the camera uses a 1000mah removable battery. One of the product description pages described it as an internal battery)

 

[Sonnar Brian]

CMV12000-2E5C1PA
starting with $1,728.07*
*per unit for 5 units and above

https://ams.com/cmv12000#tab/shop-now

In case anyone wants to know why the Pixii cost as much as it does, the CMOS 12MPixel sensor in it is most of the cost. Add the RF, body, etc- it is priced reasonably.

The Sensor chosen was made for machine vision, motion capture. etc.

Want to upgrade to 50MPixels? Might have to wait.

CMV50000-1E3M1PA
starting with $4,485.78*
*per unit for 10 units and above
Not in stock

https://ams.com/cmv50000#tab/shop-now

 

[james.liam]

CMV12000-2E5C1PA
starting with $1,728.07*
*per unit for 5 units and above

https://ams.com/cmv12000#tab/shop-now

In case anyone wants to know why the Pixii cost as much as it does, the CMOS 12MPixel sensor in it is most of the cost. Add the RF, body, etc- it is priced reasonably.

The Sensor chosen was made for machine vision, motion capture. etc.

Want to upgrade to 50MPixels? Might have to wait.

CMV50000-1E3M1PA
starting with $4,485.78*
*per unit for 10 units and above
Not in stock

https://ams.com/cmv50000#tab/shop-now

If it's truly upgradable, so then should be the battery. With all the camera sales plummeting, obtaining new and better APS-C sensors from someone else at a lower cost may be possible at present.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The camera does use a removable battery, a common NP-FW50. One of the Pixii pages described an "internal battery". Reading Hamish Gill's review, it is removable. A battery with higher capacity is available from third-party, I found a 1600mah battery. The lead engineer on that review (David) states that they are writing software to get higher dynamic range. More megapixels will require more processing. I asked about using a mechanical shutter as global shutters typically introduce 10dB more noise into the image, based on manufacturers data sheets. I got this answer-

"The ISO performance is essentially a software limitation. A mechanical shutter would be a regression in my mind. Instead we plan to enable (via software again) some options available with this sensor technology to increase the dynamic by up to 30dB. This requires some careful calibration but the initial results are quite encouraging."

I think that software for this camera will improve performance. The sensor offers a number of modes of operation.

 

[olakiril]

CMV12000-2E5C1PA
starting with $1,728.07*
*per unit for 5 units and above

Well that probably was the price few years back, now it should be cheaper. With all the development that they needed for pixii they wouldn't be able to make much money otherwise.

The problem with the non global shutters is the requirement for a physical shutter which is actually one of the trickiest to fit in the body.

If they can bring a modern sensor at the same price point they might be able to make some profit. Not huge I bet and as much I would like to own such a camera, with leica used cameras available at the same price it can be tough.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Well that probably was the price few years back, now it should be cheaper. With all the development that they needed for pixii they wouldn't be able to make much money otherwise.

The problem with the non global shutters is the requirement for a physical shutter which is actually one of the trickiest to fit in the body.

If they can bring a modern sensor at the same price point they might be able to make some profit. Not huge I bet and as much I would like to own such a camera, with leica used cameras available at the same price it can be tough.

No- this is a current quote for the price, taken from their website today.

https://ams.com/cmv12000#tab/shop-now

You can click the "Buy Now" button...

The Datasheet for this sensor is 2020, v3-00 • 2020-Apr-16

This is a modern sensor. It is made for machine vision applications.

https://ams.com/documents/20143/360...3-00.pdf/d27f4643-e11b-86f9-4e09-ec055cb4c8e1

You can download it yourself. I've been reading Sensor Datasheets since 1990.