Planning a WW II European-theme vacation.

BillBingham2 said:
. . . IMHO not much to learn at most battle sights. You can learn more by looking at War College notes on a few battles . . .
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Dear Bill,

I really can't agree. In 1989 Frances and I did a book about the battlefields of the (American) Civil War and as long as you've done your research first you learn a LOT from seeing the actual lie of the land.

Cheers,

R.
 
Thanks Mike & a couple of thoughts

Thanks Mike & a couple of thoughts

Mike, thanks for the post. I agree 100 %
Sorry about your father. My father died in 2002. He joined the army infantry and landed on Utah beach. Never talked about. Wife & I walks the utah beach at low tide. At least part of it.
It was when we walked through the American cemetery above Omaha beach that my knees buckled and tears filled my eyes. Every American in your case with your son should go to a war cemetery at home and abroad. Just some things to consider, Don.
When we were walking around the markers, saw a rainbow out over the Channel.
Enjoy your trip. Look forward to you & your son's point of view and of course, images.
Have fun and be safe.
In advance,
News
 
- Liberty Park in Overloon (The Netherlands), The area where the battle in the shadow of MarketGarden was fought

-Plenty of museums up and down the Normandy Coast. I thought Deadman's Corner was a good one.

-Plenty of museums in the Belgian Ardennes, around Bastogne, Diekirch, La Roche for example. The one near Poteau is no longer there I think.

-Airborne museum in Oosterbeek (Netherlands).

Enjoy your trip! 🙂
 
I can offer little of current value as I was in Normandy something like 38 years ago... but I do recall that Arromanches was impressive with a lot of the floating harbours, gun bunkers and suchlike in place.

I'll also give another vote for the Bayeux tapestry - while not to do with WWII, it is a very impressive historical artifact and slightly fits the theme of trans-channel aggression.
 
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Lucadomi said:
In Italy there is also the American Cemetery in Nettuno.
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Yes, near Anzio . . . very beautiful place. "You don't learn much from battle sites." Well, the most important reason to visit battle sites is to pay homage to the dead on whose sacrifices our world has been built. If you think the world would have been better if the other side had won, then I guess there is no reason to go.
 
WWII has been mainly fought in the east, the biggest battles being Stalingrad and Kursk. All that Western mythology, including Normandy landing, put in perspective is insignificant. This is not to say we should not be thankful for all those who participated in good cause. If you REALLY want to visit important battlefields, you have to travel to Russia, or at least to Poland. Warsaw is a city-symbol of WWII. It was destroyed 3 times over: in 1939, and in 44 twice, it was ground of the biggest anti German uprising during WWII and it also witnessed the Jewish uprising in the ghetto. Almost every street has signs of battles or group executions. On the other side of the scale, Wroclaw (Breslau), now a Polish city in the south west, has been the last bastion of German defense to surrender to the Allies.
 
mfogiel said:
WWII has been mainly fought in the east, the biggest battles being Stalingrad and Kursk. All that Western mythology, including Normandy landing, put in perspective is insignificant. This is not to say we should not be thankful for all those who participated in good cause. If you REALLY want to visit important battlefields, you have to travel to Russia, or at least to Poland. Warsaw is a city-symbol of WWII. It was destroyed 3 times over: in 1939, and in 44 twice, it was ground of the biggest anti German uprising during WWII and it also witnessed the Jewish uprising in the ghetto. Almost every street has signs of battles or group executions. On the other side of the scale, Wroclaw (Breslau), now a Polish city in the south west, has been the last bastion of German defense to surrender to the Allies.
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Historically you are absolutely right--and the Russians will never let anyone forget it. In terms of memory we care most about our own. Are you from Eastern Europe?
 
Hi guys,

Just an update: Sky (my son) was gifted some money from his grandparents for the trip. Now the trip is in the realm of possibly happening.

I'm already set on cameras so this is a different type of travel question.

We'd love to go see Volgograd but it's too far from the rest of what he wants to see (we're from the states).

We want to see London (Imperial War Museum) Duxford/Debden, Abbey Road Studios 🙂, Bovington, the D-Day beaches and cemetary's, Paris (typical outside touristy views), Abbeville (Luftwaffe air base), Bastogne, Berlin, Prague and maybe Munich...whew!!!!

I really need help help from local RFF'ers. How do I travel between places? Train? Rental car? Do I need a Visa for any of these countries?

In other words...Do I take the train to/from Bovington and then take the Chunnel across or take the train to Bovington and take the Ferry to Cherboug?

Can I rent a car in Cherbourg and drop it in Munich? Do I even want to tackle the challenge of driving in Europe?

Where are inexpensive places to stay or what would you recommend?

BTW...this is a m43's trip 🙂 Oly EM5 with 3 small lenses and a Panny lx5 as back-up for me...have to get him a camera.

Thanks for any and all help you're able to provide. I really wish we had all summer to go east and see part of Russia.

Don
 
If you're planning to do that itinerary in anything less than a month, you're going to be way too exhausted to enjoy it.

No visas needed, passport checks on entry to the UK and into the Schengen Agreement countries (essentially the continental EU).

If it were me, I'd be taking trains over the longer distances and getting a car locally when necessary. You won't need a car at all in the cities, and you won't want one - fuel is hideously expensive by US standards. Driving in Europe isn't bad once you get out of the cities - just stay out of the left lane on the autobahn.
 
Having driven Cherbourg to Munich, I wouldn't do it again (not the complete stretch anyway)! It was in August, which is peak traffic jam season, especially in Germany. Fuel prices vary between countries, for instance here in Ireland it is around €1.30/€1.40 (diesel/petrol) per litre!
However I certainly would consider driving around north western France, roads aren't so busy and it is a handy way of getting around to d-day beaches, war cemeteries, museums etc.
I would be looking at a combination of means of transport. For the longer stretches I would definitely be looking at budget airlines (Ryan Air, German Wings etc.) or train and renting a car only where necessary (for visiting places away from cities) and using subways and public transport in cities.

So for where you mention: London - use public transport
d-day beaches and cemeteries - if you were bringing a car you could get a ferry to Cherbourg, it is a long crossing though. Chunnel brings you a bit far east, but still an easy drive along the coast.
If it were me I would fly from London to Paris, spend a few days there using the metro to get around. I would then look at train connections towards the north west coast and rent a car there to explore the area. Or maybe see if train connection to Abbeville or nearby and rent a car from there and explore towards Cherbourg.
If you are driving in France Chambres d'hôtes can be a nice option, especially those that provide a hot dinner (no menu mind you, you take what you are given!) for a reasonable price. In some of the busier establishments it can be a most interesting way to spend a evening with your fellow guests.
 
- St-Nazaire and Lorient with the U-boot pens, but this the atlantic coast of France
- La Coupole, V2 base (that never served) turned into WW2 museum.
- Ypres is more WW1 but the last post at the Menen gate and Tyne Cot cemetary are impressive. And a visit to the "trench of death" also. Lots of others things as well.
- at Raversijde on the Belgian coast there is a part of the Atlantikwall well preserved.
- in the Elzas you can find some very fine French fortifications of the Maginot line.
 
In the early late 1980s my then wife and I had the chance to sail around various Pacific Island battlefields on a square rigged sailing ship. It was principally a diving expedition but island battle field visits were also on the cards which had us visiting Guadalcanal, the Florida Islands, the Shortland Islands, Bougainville, New Guinea and various other locations. Lots of aircraft and ship wrecks the former both laying in jungles and under the water. A later trip also took us to Palau and Pellieu. It amazed me to see how so many locations were just left pretty well as they were after the shooting stopped. I would love to visit the European sites as well. In the late 1990s I had the chance to visit Hungary just as communism had given way to capitalism. What was remarkable to me were the number of Budapest streets still with obvious evidence of WW2 damage (bullet holes, shell holes roughly patched) on the buildings which were never the less still used as residences by the locals. I guess the commies were just not interested in improving the amenity of the capital for their citizens. At the time I visited however renovations were madly under way in many locations and my guess was that in a decade little evidence of WW2 would remain.
 
Being an American of Irish, Scottish and British decent, and humbly thankful for the sacrifices all the Allies made in WW-II, I also feel the West completely marginalized Russia's WW-II sacrifices.

This was mostly due to Cold War politics as well as fear over fundamental ideological differences. At the age of 12 (and living in-between Philadelphia and NYC) I remember fearing for my life during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Then in the 1980s there was a well-researched piece in the New Yorker that documented how Russia was repeatedly invaded and threatened militarily over the centuries. The author's point was to try and put some context around Russia's post-war behavior in the hopes that increased understanding might make the U.S.' strategies more effective.

I am well aware Russian leaders did hideous before, during and after WW-II. No doubt some RFF members were/are directly affected by these transgressions. But the U.S. government didn't exactly treat Native Americans well... and then there's slavery.

I guess what I'm trying to say in a non-political and objective way is all the Allies sacrificed to defeat the Nazis. I believe we are forever indebted to every single civilian and warrior who sacrificed during and after the war to secure victory.
 
Hi,

Thinking about this and the routes to get around.

How about London and then Duxford, then London again and then out to Poole for Bovington and then back to Poole for the Ferry to France? I'm not too sure of the detail but from Poole you can get to St Malo and Cherbourg, both a good starting point for Normandy beaches.

If you've only driven on the wrong side of the road then I'd not hire a car in Britain where we drive on the left but you can rely on public transport and probably save money. That's based on what it cost me to hire a car after some idiot decided to re-arrange my car doors in a car park.

There's a lot to see in France and I'd not go further as I think you'd be biting off far more than you can chew, as the saying goes. France has its big set piece places but there's a lot to see all over France and you'd miss most of it driving long distances. Many of the smaller sites are worth a visit and some are often just a square foot or so at the side of the road. Here's an example;-

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And you might want to see this, which Hollywood got right:-

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Plus there's a lot of small local celebrations throughout France that are worth visiting. I was invited to one at Amiens last year and wouldn't have missed for the world...

Regards, David

PS And I'd add Bletchley Park where the Enigma code was cracked to your list.
 
Actually, the dummy is hanging on the opposite side of the church. John Steele was hanging at the back, but this way at least all the tourists can see 'him' as they come into town.
 
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