Please explain why print and frame sizes don't match.

[SciAggie]

I finally decided to start having more of my images printed. The problem is deciding how to crop images and what frame sizes to buy - I speaking about the aspect ratio for 35mm. It makes me crazy.

The choice seems to be between tight framing and then you can't find a frame - or frame generously and crop to a standard frame size. For an example a 12 x 18 print matches the aspect ratio of 35mm pretty closely, but standard frames are 12 x 16. What do you do? Those 2 inches of image may be significant. Do you custom frame (expensive), or go to a matted 16 x 20 frame and have to hassle with matting?

What do you guys do? How do you handle the difference between image aspect ratio and frame sizes without breaking the bank with custom framing.

 

[Particular]

If you print the image portion as 8x12 and frame it in a 12x16 frame you will have an even 2" border all around. I'm not sure that is a great solution, but I think it is the only way to make awkward sizes work. Alternatively you could print 'modern', and have the print mounted on aluminum or plastic and forget about the frame.

 

[FrankS]

Crop or pay for custom.

 

[PatrickT]

This has always driven me nuts.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I use metal section frames. Nielsen & Bainbridge are the best and they're still fairly cheap. Buy the frames and assemble them yourself, frame shops will charge you a fortune for frames that are really not expensive if you buy them online and put them together yourself. They're sold in one inch increments. You buy two sets of sides, one set for the horizontal dimension and one for the vertical..so basically custom frames but cheap. Not walmart cheap, but really cheap frames look like crap. If you're shooting equipment costing thousands, its dumb to skimp on frames.

 

[SciAggie]

Crop or pay for custom.

So, in all seriousness - did you train yourself mentally to "crop" while framing, or do you chose the custom framing option?

I guess I also just needed to vent. The majority of images are in a 35mm image format, I don't understand why you can't buy large standard frames in that ratio.

 

[SciAggie]

I use metal section frames. Nielsen & Bainbridge are the best and they're still fairly cheap. Buy the frames and assemble them yourself, frame shops will charge you a fortune for frames that are really not expensive if you buy them online and put them together yourself. They're sold in one inch increments. You buy two sets of sides, one set for the horizontal dimension and one for the vertical..so basically custom frames but cheap. Not walmart cheap, but really cheap frames look like crap. If you're shooting equipment costing thousands, its dumb to skimp on frames.

Thanks Chris. I am looking for a simple type of "poster" frame. I have a number of prints I am hanging in my classroom. I thought that would be a nice place to enjoy them for myself, and I might generate some interest in my students.

 

[bob338]

The majority of images are in a 35mm image format, I don't understand why you can't buy large standard frames in that ratio.

I'm a framer. I don't sell readymade frames, but I know that the most popular size is 24x36, which is the same ratio as 35mm film. You would be able to blow up a 35 neg to 20x30 and have room for a 2 inch mat.

Even after all these years I still don't know why the standard sizes are standard. I know frame shops like 16x20 because glass and mat board comes in 32x40 sheets, so you can get 4 out of each sheet.

Bob

 

[FrankS]

So, in all seriousness - did you train yourself mentally to "crop" while framing, or do you chose the custom framing option?

I guess I also just needed to vent. The majority of images are in a 35mm image format, I don't understand why you can't buy large standard frames in that ratio.

Depends on the image. If it can be cropped without compromise, then framing it costs less. If it can't be cropped, then you have to decide whether it's worth custom framing. I often buy the kind of frame that Chris mentions.

 

[Frank Petronio]

I used to be a framer too, many, many years ago.

Now I use a friend for "real" framing since he can cut mats and bevels more perfectly than me.

For cheap stuff, print to fit the hole, beggars can't be choosers...

There are numerous online vendors who will custom cut mats. If you consistently print a certain size, perhaps do an order in quantity to drive the price down? http://www.redimat.com/ for instance.

But give your local framer a shot at it too, especially if you have a loose deadline.

I grew up on aluminum frames, now I hate them, I much prefer a quality wood frame even if it isn't perfectly archival.

You might run into Light Impressions in your searching. The company was sold a few years ago and the new owners don't run it as well, so I can't recommend them.

 

[Bob Michaels]

I use the aspect ratio appropriate for each image. 80% of what I shoot 35mm works best in a 4x5 aspect ratio. That means I crop something off one or both ends. The other 20% needs a 2x3 aspect ratio or whole frame. Oddly, when shooting 6x6, the image almost always demands a square format. 6x7 negs almost always need a square of 4x5 aspect ratio.

I am framing a series now for exhibit. It was all shot 35mm. There are 25 - 10x12.5 prints (4x5 aspect ratio) and 5 - 9.5x13.5 (2x3 or full frame) prints. Everything is in 16x20 frames. All the mats are custom cut. I use Nielsen #11 aluminum flat black frames consistently. Like Chris Crawford, I buy the frame pieces and assemble them myself in an attempt to hold down costs. I buy mine from AmericanFrame.com who I recommend.

I have no problems with unframed photos. Just plexiglass (or glass) mat, print and foamcore backing held to the wall with L pins. That is a threaded pin with a 90 degree bend that sandwiches everything together and holds it to the wall.

 

[dave lackey]

Good advice here. Just don't cheap out, appearance of your frame says a lot about the photographer, unfortunately.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Once upon a time, there were 4x5 (= 8x10 crop) cameras. Then some other time there were the Instamatics. And the 6x7 weirdos. Not to mention the 70mm folks. Then there were some plates in 5x7, 11x14, etc. etc.

Back-compatibility has always been a ([n] antimetaphorical walk on the) beach.

 

[shadowfox]

Recently, I came to like big wide mat for framing, and that gives me the flexibility when it comes to the ratio of the photograph itself.

 

[blackwave]

I usually buy a standard size frame and cut the mat opening to the image size. Crop if the composition asks for it, not if the frame does.

 

[Dektol Dan]

Why Film Frames Are All Wrong

Why Film Frames Are All Wrong

Standard frame sizes are all based on the Golden Mean. Google that or watch Donald Duck in Mathamagic Land if you want to know the simple details of the principle. Sometimes a formal education (Art/Photography 101...Ha!) isn't such a bad thing.

All cameras and paper sizes kept to the golden mean until
Leitz's invention of the the 'spy camera' in the teens. The Leica used 35mm moving picture film stock for still camera use, and that, and the broad acceptance of the typewriter, threw the wrench in the works of the perfect proportion.

After that, all sorts of heresy followed, like square format and twin lens reflex cameras. Today's digital cameras are whatever proportion is pulled from the designer's kiester.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

12 hotdogs; 10 buns. - Ben Marks

 

[ChrisP]

Where to buy?

Where to buy?

Thanks for this suggestion Chris,
Do you have recommendations of where to buy frames? US distributors are fine because I'm in Canada. It doesn't look like Nielsen & Bainbridge sell them direct from their website.

I use metal section frames. Nielsen & Bainbridge are the best and they're still fairly cheap. Buy the frames and assemble them yourself, frame shops will charge you a fortune for frames that are really not expensive if you buy them online and put them together yourself. They're sold in one inch increments. You buy two sets of sides, one set for the horizontal dimension and one for the vertical..so basically custom frames but cheap. Not walmart cheap, but really cheap frames look like crap. If you're shooting equipment costing thousands, its dumb to skimp on frames.

 

[bob338]

Thanks for this suggestion Chris,
Do you have recommendations of where to buy frames? US distributors are fine because I'm in Canada. It doesn't look like Nielsen & Bainbridge sell them direct from their website.

Light Impressions sells direct. You can try ebay, too. There are usually a few sellers selling bulk(25 or more) mats and frames there.

Bob

 

[sevo]

Standard frame sizes are all based on the Golden Mean.

Well, no, none that I am aware of. Just about all, except for square frames, are based upon paper formats - which, being moderately rectangular can't be altogether far off the golden ratio. But there are few, if any exact matches - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size#Loose_sizes for a list of widespread sizes, where none are particularly close to the roughly 1.618 golden ratio.

What's more, frames tend to be less elongated than the underlying paper size, as identical margins add more to the narrow side, so that frames generally are even more off the golden ratio.