PMA Los Angeles: Samsung NX and New Sony

[CameraQuest]

Today I examined the new Samsung NX Micro KA camera. While it was only a quick once over, the viewfinder and rear camera display were both exceptionally nice. For all practical purposes the body seems the same size as the Panasonic GH1. I believe it will be a serious contender with M4/3 cameras. 1.5x multiplier factor.

Also on display were Non working Sony Micro cameras, which look much like the Olympus Pen EP series. Sony has the resources to go after the market in a big way once they get underway.

Estimated Samsung will starting US NX shipments in the next 2 to 3 months. Price with kit zoom about $600

Does anyone know for sure if the NX is thin enough to allow the use of Leica M lenses via adapters?

Thanks
Stephen

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

My reading seems to indicate that M lenses are no go--and even if they were, the corner smearing would be extreme.

I read somewhere that Sigma is considering making m4/3 lenses. But what I really would like to see is Mr. K going that route, with native manual focus optics. Any chance of that, Stephen?

 

[Avotius]

I was a little disapointed with Sony's announcement, I was thinking they would be further along the development road than a mock up Ricoh GRD look alike. More details like possible Zeiss primes or such would have spiced it up a lot more, but now Sony just seems to be doing a me too camera.

That said, I have given serious thought to getting rid of my EP1 in favor for something with an even bigger sensor since all too many of my pictures with the EP1 get taken over ISO 800 and having something with better auto focus and a flash would be really nice. Sony uses in body IS for its DSLR's, any word on this front for their mirrorless concept?

 

[charjohncarter]

Samsung has really stepped up to the plate. Now it is time for some of the others to give them a run for their money. After all, this is the electronic age not the mechanical+electronic age (DSLR). But please let us easily use our old and weird lenses.

 

[Ernst Dinkla]

Also on display were Non working Sony Micro cameras, which look much like the Olympus Pen EP series. Sony has the resources to go after the market in a big way once they get underway.

Estimated Samsung will starting US NX shipments in the next 2 to 3 months. Price with kit zoom about $600

Does anyone know for sure if the NX is thin enough to allow the use of Leica M lenses via adapters?

Thanks
Stephen

The NX10 flange to sensor distance is short enough for Leica M lenses and LTM lenses. The NX10 mount throat is however too small for an M and LTM adapter. So no adaption possible. Based on measurements of several pictures and a message from an early owner who estimates the throat 36-38 mm in diameter.

That said you could tell Mr K that it wouldn't be difficult to take the NX10 mount off and replace it with a custom M-mount. I bet he knows that already. After the RD-1 it is time for another Cosina digital camera. A firmware addition to confirm manual focusing better etc would be needed. Pity Samsung didn't put the IS on the sensor, they have the technology.

If the Sony mock ups are anywhere near the real product then the mount at least looks to be wider. Better chance for adapters on them.

Sigma's sensor size will not make their EVILs interesting for M lenses. Not more than micro4/3 already does.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Sigma uses the Foveon sensor, stacked red-green-blue sensors rather than a Mosaic filter and Anti-aliasing. That could be interesting.

A pity that the throat size is the limiting problem with using M and LTM lenses on the Samsung.

 

[Matus]

I am also interested about the Sigma. It is more-less clear that they will stick inside their Foveon sensor (which needs some more development), but I really like the detail per pixel in the output. They just need to make the sensor a bit bigger (APS-C size with some 3x 8 Mpix would be great)

 

[Ernst Dinkla]

Sigma uses the Foveon sensor, stacked red-green-blue sensors rather than a Mosaic filter and Anti-aliasing. That could be interesting.

A pity that the throat size is the limiting problem with using M and LTM lenses on the Samsung.

The Fovean sensor used to be interesting 5 years ago. Development however didn't happen at the same pace Bayer mosaic sensor design showed since. The Polaroid compact with a Fovean variant flopped miserably, the first Sigma DSLR probably was the most competitive on sensor quality of all Fovean designs. In the market at that time. It would surprise me if an EVIL Fovean camera gets a larger sensor than available in the Sigma DSLR and that one is only a bit larger than 4/3.

There is no DxO ranking of a Sigma sensor but I see several 4/3 models higher in ranking than a Sigma in ColorFoto's (Image Engineering) camera ranking. Two labs I trust. The Samsung GX20 sensor way above 4/3 senosrs in DXO ranking.

An M-mount on the Samsung + IS on the sensor + selling the body with a lens included wouldn't have harmed initial sales of the camera at all. It would have secured its place on the market in the future. Proprietary solutions fail more often than universal ones. Enough M-mount adapters to SLR lenses available including to Canon FD and Minolta MD. Every rangfinder and (D)SLR owner interested in an MX10.

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

 

[Kevin]

I agree with Ernst. An m-mount Samsung with contacts for AF lenses would have been a better camera.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

I am also interested about the Sigma. It is more-less clear that they will stick inside their Foveon sensor (which needs some more development), but I really like the detail per pixel in the output. They just need to make the sensor a bit bigger (APS-C size with some 3x 8 Mpix would be great)

Did anyone say anything about a Sigma interchangeable-lens small-sensor camera? I only mentioned that they are considering making m4/3 lenses...a Foveon entry in this field would be interesting, but I didn't see this item anywhere.

 

[tom_f77]

Did anyone say anything about a Sigma interchangeable-lens small-sensor camera?

Check new announcements today - interesting stuff from sigma and ricoh, as well as the other stuff...

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

Cool! Will do...

 

[Paul T.]

28mm equivalent, f/2.5 for the Ricoh. Sounds interesting, but not due until the winter.

 

[CameraQuest]

Samsung showed non working NX samples a year ago at the previous PMA in Las Vegas. Its a bit odd Samsung used a year to refine the camera, and yet did not enlarge the mount big enough for Leica M lenses.

In contrast, the lens mount throat on the new Sony mockups seems HUGE. It may prove a usable platform for Leica M lenses.

Stephen

 

[Ernst Dinkla]

Samsung showed non working NX samples a year ago at the previous PMA in Las Vegas. Its a bit odd Samsung used a year to refine the camera, and yet did not enlarge the mount big enough for Leica M lenses.

In contrast, the lens mount throat on the new Sony mockups seems HUGE. It may prove a usable platform for Leica M lenses.

Stephen

Returning to this thread, Measuring the Sony Nex pictures of the DPReview preview pages suggests that the mount is approx. 43mm wide within the clamps. 6 mm more than Samsungs NX10 throat. While M-mount adapters will be possible anyway due to the 18mm? flange<>sensor distance, the wider mount should make a slightly recessed C-mount adapter possible too. 35mm movie format C-mount lenses then. Maybe Sony was wise and the actual distance isn't 18mm but 17,526 mm of the C-mount. In both cases a very nice range of C-mount lenses is available for this Nex mount. Not all C-mount lenses cover 18x24 mm frames though.

Ernst Dinkla

www.pigment-print.com

 

[Kevin]

That sounds cool, Ernst.
What bothers me about the Sony NEX (or whatever it's going to be called) is that proprietary "hot shoe".
It's always one stupid design decision or another !!

 

[jarski]

It's always one stupid design decision or another !!

well how come there could be succeeding model without ? 😉

 

[jsrockit]

It's always one stupid design decision or another !!

Yep, nobody ever makes the perfect camera and nobody ever will.

 

[Miserere]

What bothers me about the Sony NEX (or whatever it's going to be called) is that proprietary "hot shoe".
It's always one stupid design decision or another !!

You can always count on this with Sony! 😀 At least they let you use an SD card...

.

 

[Miserere]

Getting back to the Sammy NX10 (which I am currently reviewing), Novoflex have announced adapters for Leica screwmount lenses, but as it's been said already, M lenses are out of the question. A replacement mount could be a possibility for desperate M users, as there are no electrical connections on the mount itself and it's just held on by 4 screws. More worrysome could be all the plastic that's inside the mount--I have no idea how far back M lenses extend so can't make a judgement there.

As far as the camera is concerned, it's almost perfect for my street shooting as far as the hardware goes. It's small, light, and very comfortable to hold. And with 10 functions being accessed directly via a hard button, you can't complain about having to menu dive to set WB or focus point position. Speaking of which, it focuses freakin fast; much faster than the Oly E-PL1.

The problem with this camera is the firmware; I think it needs a v2.0 to realise the camera's potential. For example, you can only adjust the ISO in full stops, and while changing it you can't see how the change affects your shutter speed or aperture. In auto ISO it does change in 1/3 stop increments, so there's no reason not to allow the user to do the same, especially when there's a menu item to set EV increments for aperture and shutter speed to 1/2 or 1/3 stops.

It's nothing fundamentally perverse, just a bunch of little things like this that give me the feeling the firmware was still 3 months away from being fully finished. Because of this I'm hoping Samsung will release an update soon. If they do, the NX10 will be a strong contender in the MILC arena.

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