BillBingham2
Registered User
All full frame really gives you is the ability to reuse the glass you already have. If say Nikon came out with a lower cost M mount DRF and some reasonably priced glass a lot of folks would dump and jump. Unfortunately the impact of the 1.5x factor messes with wide angle lenses as there are not a lot of choices in the 16-19 range. It seems once again, Pres K knew this issue but few were interested in the 18mm he showed a few years back.
As I'm migrating to a digital space I've given up on the hope to have a really good wide (24-28mm) without spending an arm and a leg. I've made some very nice tasting lemonade and am using a GR-D1 (28mm) as both my wide and backup camera. All my old Nikkors (and new CV) fit nicely now.
We are focusing on the wrong answer. FF in RF just to save our glass, silly. Let's focus on what glass we would want to buy and get that going. This will stimulate the sales of new lenses and more bodies that people know how to build.
B2 (;->
As I'm migrating to a digital space I've given up on the hope to have a really good wide (24-28mm) without spending an arm and a leg. I've made some very nice tasting lemonade and am using a GR-D1 (28mm) as both my wide and backup camera. All my old Nikkors (and new CV) fit nicely now.
We are focusing on the wrong answer. FF in RF just to save our glass, silly. Let's focus on what glass we would want to buy and get that going. This will stimulate the sales of new lenses and more bodies that people know how to build.
B2 (;->
pvdhaar
Peter
Sensible answer, and that's the way Nikon intended to go with their DSLRs. And look what they've done; FF D3..BillBingham2 said:
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
It would have been more reasonable for Mr. Lee to point out that Leica's history has always been one of ongoing evolutionary improvement. It should be remembered that not so long ago, a digital Leica M was thought to be impossible at all! Thus a 1.33 factor is really quite impressive already! Given the evolutionary history of the company, it is not unreasonable that an M9, or an M8b, for example, may improve on this already low crop factor by a matter of some degrees. Improvements in technology might allow a factor of 1.25, for example. But as to whether there will ever be a full frame digital M, it is too soon to say.
And that, I think, is a more reasonable thing for us to expect. Incremental improvements from time to time, as the state of the art progresses.
And that, I think, is a more reasonable thing for us to expect. Incremental improvements from time to time, as the state of the art progresses.
infocusf8@earthlink.
Established
Axxessories
Axxessories
Leica has bought the Holga factory and will use that body for FF. The first prototype of that camera will be used to take the wedding photographs.. The camera will need a filter in front of the lens that blocks all light in order to avoid image quality that is not up to Leica standard.
Rolls of black electricians tape will be added as an accessory to prevent light leaks.
Axxessories
Leica has bought the Holga factory and will use that body for FF. The first prototype of that camera will be used to take the wedding photographs.. The camera will need a filter in front of the lens that blocks all light in order to avoid image quality that is not up to Leica standard.
Rolls of black electricians tape will be added as an accessory to prevent light leaks.
Wang Chung
Member
pizzahut88 said:
There is a difference, you know, between a 'promise' and a rumor.
chikne
Well-known
The M8's next upgrade!!!
The M8's next upgrade!!!
Guys I've had some extraordinary leaked information from the Leica factory.
The next upgrade to come might be the following:
Simply send your camera back back to Leica and they will put a new skin on it, that's right your old vulcanite will be removed and replaced by a new skin made with 2 layers of smoked salmon and stuffed with fertilized cod roe.
This is only for the first one, for the next one all you have to do is to send your camera to Leica (via Alaskan salmon express this time) and Leica will replace the stuffing with caviar and also rehydrate your salmon skin. The last one is only at the condition that after each use you have marinated your camera in salt water and that the cod roe hasn't hatched, otherwise your skin will also need to be resmoked with oakwood for 3 days.
$2000(+vat) only for each upgrade.
The M8's next upgrade!!!
Guys I've had some extraordinary leaked information from the Leica factory.
The next upgrade to come might be the following:
Simply send your camera back back to Leica and they will put a new skin on it, that's right your old vulcanite will be removed and replaced by a new skin made with 2 layers of smoked salmon and stuffed with fertilized cod roe.
This is only for the first one, for the next one all you have to do is to send your camera to Leica (via Alaskan salmon express this time) and Leica will replace the stuffing with caviar and also rehydrate your salmon skin. The last one is only at the condition that after each use you have marinated your camera in salt water and that the cod roe hasn't hatched, otherwise your skin will also need to be resmoked with oakwood for 3 days.
$2000(+vat) only for each upgrade.
DelDavis
.
chikne said:
I might buy the M8 to take advantage of this. Sounds like a great source of Omega-3.
pizzahut88
Well-known
Wang Chung said:
A promise is not a rumour,
a hint is not a promise.
It was a hint that was later refuted,
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
So the question is "will Leica make good its (noncommittal) hint I thought was a promise?"pizzahut88 said:
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
yanidel
Well-known
Fitting a full frame and alongside software programming is a huge investment in R&D for Leica that will have to be recouped at some point. Given a simple shutter upgrade is already close to €1000 euros, I can imagine the sensor upgrade to be significantly more. Given the generally wealthy customer base of Leica, wouldn't it be just more common sense to introduce it as a M9 with full options ?
Many would be pissed but well, look at current prices of the first pro digital models of Canon of Nikon, they are basically less than 20% of original price, so it would not be inconsiderate to just drop the M8 and move on to new technology.
Many would be pissed but well, look at current prices of the first pro digital models of Canon of Nikon, they are basically less than 20% of original price, so it would not be inconsiderate to just drop the M8 and move on to new technology.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
The camera throat is too narrow to fit a full frame sensor, due to the battery. The only parts usable for such an operation would be the camera top and bottom.
Ben Z
Veteran
The Leica product/service head for USA was the after dinner speaker at the LHSA event last week. The upgrades were discussed and to the subject of a FF sensor upgrade his response was something like (not an exact quote but as close as I can remember) "certain things which sound to some people like they should be simple, are not always so simple. Putting a full frame sensor into the M8 as an upgrade is one of those things, that in fact may never happen."
kuzano
Veteran
Necessity or Cosmetic Bling....
Necessity or Cosmetic Bling....
Is it conceivable that Canon, Nikon and any other FF sensor manufacturers are making their FF cameras monstrously huge just to use up excess materials and charge prices by the gram? Or, is it possible the FF sensor necessitates such a large camera body? Perhaps the FF guys think Professional photographers need the extra weight for stability?
Technology will change, but I'd put my buck on faster development of the crop sensors, down to 2X over increased image quality out of the FF sensor in a smaller exterior housing.
The 4/3rds sensor, while reviled by many, is showing excellent promise in image quality approaching current FF sensors. The previous Olympus E1 and the current Olympus E3 are pounding at the door of FF sensor image quality. In addition, the new 420 Olympus and 28mm prime lens are a tighter package than that available from Leica, even if not up to the standards perceived as superior in the overpriced market.
Necessity or Cosmetic Bling....
Is it conceivable that Canon, Nikon and any other FF sensor manufacturers are making their FF cameras monstrously huge just to use up excess materials and charge prices by the gram? Or, is it possible the FF sensor necessitates such a large camera body? Perhaps the FF guys think Professional photographers need the extra weight for stability?
Technology will change, but I'd put my buck on faster development of the crop sensors, down to 2X over increased image quality out of the FF sensor in a smaller exterior housing.
The 4/3rds sensor, while reviled by many, is showing excellent promise in image quality approaching current FF sensors. The previous Olympus E1 and the current Olympus E3 are pounding at the door of FF sensor image quality. In addition, the new 420 Olympus and 28mm prime lens are a tighter package than that available from Leica, even if not up to the standards perceived as superior in the overpriced market.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
Didn't you read the interview with the Leica CEO recently??? No full frame. They are commited to updating the M8 as much as possible.
dougiec29
Member
Zeiss wins
Zeiss wins
Zeiss will beat them to FF because they have been eyeing that product while Leica concentrates on development and upgrades for the M8. Zeiss has stated that digital is an important part of the future of photography, but that the technology is not yet advanced enough to introduce a FF dRF. When it is, they will sell it.
Zeiss wins
Zeiss will beat them to FF because they have been eyeing that product while Leica concentrates on development and upgrades for the M8. Zeiss has stated that digital is an important part of the future of photography, but that the technology is not yet advanced enough to introduce a FF dRF. When it is, they will sell it.
JohnL
Very confused
I don't believe I've ever seen such an inconclusive poll on RFF - split almost evenly four ways at the moment ... now what does that tell us?
kuzano
Veteran
Heretical, methinks not....
Heretical, methinks not....
IIRC... Leica brought an economical film rangefinder to the masses with the knowledge and assistance of Minolta, including some pretty fantastic Minolta glass. Furthermore, Minolta led the way for Leica to develop a truly nice and advanced SLR.
Obviously Leica did not share the income stream well with Minolta, contributing to their demise.
Heretical, methinks not....
IIRC... Leica brought an economical film rangefinder to the masses with the knowledge and assistance of Minolta, including some pretty fantastic Minolta glass. Furthermore, Minolta led the way for Leica to develop a truly nice and advanced SLR.
Obviously Leica did not share the income stream well with Minolta, contributing to their demise.
dee
Well-known
I read somewhere that , due to the closeness of the lense elements to the sensor on a rangefinder , that the angle of the light means that Leica adopted the max size of sensor to work within these restrictions . Can anyone shed some light on this thought ?
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I couldn't have cared less about a full frame sensor a while ago but now that I've worked out what a great tool the M8 is in tight dark shooting environments I would like to be able to use my 35mm Nokton as a 35 and not the 46mm that the crop forces it to become. This is where the camera does fall down a little in my opinion ... to gain an equivalent focal length to 35mm I would need a 25mm Biogon or similar and f2.8 doesn't cut it in a lot of the situations I'm using my camera in currently.
If they do come out with a new camera in the near future that has a full frame sensor it will be hellishly expensive for sure and certainly out of my league ... I still haven't recovered from having to pay $6500.00 Aust for what I have now!
If they do come out with a new camera in the near future that has a full frame sensor it will be hellishly expensive for sure and certainly out of my league ... I still haven't recovered from having to pay $6500.00 Aust for what I have now!