Maxx640
Newbie
Hello,
I'm new to this forum, as I was kindly advised to come here for the following questions.
I'm actually planning a trip to India for early next year and am looking into a camera to bring for B&W. It has to be MF because since the day I discovered this format, 35mm just seems impossible.
I was looking around on the net at 6x7 cameras and discovered the Mamiya Universal and Mamiya press (can't tell the difference). I also saw the equivalent Koni-Omega that looks roughly the same. Now there isn't very much information about these cameras so I thought someone might be able to help me here.
First of all are these cameras ideal for street and portrait (candid) shooting? They don't look too bulky to me and there is no mirror slap, ideal for handheld.
The weight isn't too important because I'm used to carrying around heavy gear, in the past: Nikon F4, Kiev 88, Mamiya 645....
Last question is this stuff tough; I won't be throwing it against walls or dropping it on purpose, but when you travel you always end up knocking it around. A friend's plastic eos 3000 didn't survive a trip to Cambodia.
Anyway, are these models tough trustworthy cameras I can bring pics back with without being scared? What are the differences between the models?
Max
I'm new to this forum, as I was kindly advised to come here for the following questions.
I'm actually planning a trip to India for early next year and am looking into a camera to bring for B&W. It has to be MF because since the day I discovered this format, 35mm just seems impossible.
I was looking around on the net at 6x7 cameras and discovered the Mamiya Universal and Mamiya press (can't tell the difference). I also saw the equivalent Koni-Omega that looks roughly the same. Now there isn't very much information about these cameras so I thought someone might be able to help me here.
First of all are these cameras ideal for street and portrait (candid) shooting? They don't look too bulky to me and there is no mirror slap, ideal for handheld.
The weight isn't too important because I'm used to carrying around heavy gear, in the past: Nikon F4, Kiev 88, Mamiya 645....
Last question is this stuff tough; I won't be throwing it against walls or dropping it on purpose, but when you travel you always end up knocking it around. A friend's plastic eos 3000 didn't survive a trip to Cambodia.
Anyway, are these models tough trustworthy cameras I can bring pics back with without being scared? What are the differences between the models?
Max
charjohncarter
Veteran
My friend has the Mamiya 7II and it is about the size of a Canon SLR. Possibly a little smaller (not as tall or thick or heavy). It is easy to use and (he says) lighter than some of the other Mamiyas. I have used it and really like it.
Maxx640
Newbie
The mamiya 6 and 7 are too expensive for me. I was asking about the Press and universal models because there is hardly any information about them on the web and are much cheaper.
Do I also understand they have the shutter in the lens?
Do I also understand they have the shutter in the lens?
oftheherd
Veteran
Go to this thread http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47306 and scroll down to my entry where I answer some of you questions about the Super Press 23. The Universal doesn't have the bellows back, but does have an accessory to extend the back to film plane distance for close ups. Both take the extension tubes. The Universal will take a polaroid back, the 23 will not. I think there is an accessory to mate some Mamiya 67 back accessories to the Universal but I am not sure.
Do a search for Mamiya Super Press 23 and you will find other places where I or other owners have commented on them.
I personally have not owned a Universal, but from the reading I have done and using the 23, I prefer it. Either would be a good camera. You will want a wide camera strap to carry it on your neck.
Have you considered a good folder with a good lens? Few have interchangable lenses, but many make good b/w cameras. Especially those with better lenses.
If you have other questions, post them here. I will check back in the thread from time to time and would be happy to answer them based on my personal use of the 23. It is a fine camera, but you have to understand it and a brace of lenses (say the 65mm and the 150mm, as well as the normal 100mm), plus perhaps at least two backs, does add to your weight and cumbersomeness (if that is a word). Still, I do recommend the 23 as a fine MF RF.
Do a search for Mamiya Super Press 23 and you will find other places where I or other owners have commented on them.
I personally have not owned a Universal, but from the reading I have done and using the 23, I prefer it. Either would be a good camera. You will want a wide camera strap to carry it on your neck.
Have you considered a good folder with a good lens? Few have interchangable lenses, but many make good b/w cameras. Especially those with better lenses.
If you have other questions, post them here. I will check back in the thread from time to time and would be happy to answer them based on my personal use of the 23. It is a fine camera, but you have to understand it and a brace of lenses (say the 65mm and the 150mm, as well as the normal 100mm), plus perhaps at least two backs, does add to your weight and cumbersomeness (if that is a word). Still, I do recommend the 23 as a fine MF RF.
JasonC
Established
Yes. Lenses for the Mamiya Press and Universal have shutters. The bodies are basically a box with rangefinder. I think, but not sure, the Universal has bellow extension back which could do tilt.
Jason.
Jason.
FrankS
Registered User
TLR cameras are robust and compact. You may want to consider one of those.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
For travel, I'd bring a CLA'd MF folder. Their construction is so simple, if it's in a good condition, nothing in it can break in mid-travel.
If you want the best results, find the one that has a Tessar or Solinar lens on it. But even the cheaper ones with Apotar or Novar can give you amazing results, especially if you go with 6x9 negative size.
If you want the best results, find the one that has a Tessar or Solinar lens on it. But even the cheaper ones with Apotar or Novar can give you amazing results, especially if you go with 6x9 negative size.
Maxx640
Newbie
Thanks for the replies.
I owned a excellent TLR for many years but I don't feel confortable with them. For portraits they're not so good and I prefer having a camera that I can forget while shooting.
Thanks oftheherd for the information. Why would you prefer the Super 23? I don't do any macro or close up, I focus on landscape and "live and street" portrait. Wouldn't the bellows be a unnecessary plus? A Polaroid back can be interresting too but not obligatory. Is the 100mm lens equivalent of a 50mm in 35mm?
Last question, have you heard of what the Koni-Omega rapid is worth? They seem to be cheaper on the Bay.
Max
I owned a excellent TLR for many years but I don't feel confortable with them. For portraits they're not so good and I prefer having a camera that I can forget while shooting.
Thanks oftheherd for the information. Why would you prefer the Super 23? I don't do any macro or close up, I focus on landscape and "live and street" portrait. Wouldn't the bellows be a unnecessary plus? A Polaroid back can be interresting too but not obligatory. Is the 100mm lens equivalent of a 50mm in 35mm?
Last question, have you heard of what the Koni-Omega rapid is worth? They seem to be cheaper on the Bay.
Max
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
Max,
You might want to have a look at the Fuji G690 series of rangefinder cameras with interchangeable lenses. There is a link to the modest web page on the subject in my signature. I think this camera should be ideally suited to your needs: it is very sturdy (also heavy, but you stated that you didn't mind), foolproof and easy to operate (the Mamiya Press range has no security against double exposures or blank exposures and it is so easy to waste film by forgetting the dark slide) and all the lenses from 50mm to 180mm are superb. Just add a small lightmeter and you are set.
The eBay seller "shutterblade" has been selling quite a few Fuji G690 cameras lately. It seems that he bought a whole lot for cheap and he is now selling the cameras one by one on eBay. If you look at the pictures of item 110172913932 for example, you will see two labels on the top plate, one reading "Al's Studio" and the other one "Camera No.3".
As there were so many (relatively speaking) G690 sold on eBay recently, the consequence is a price drop. The last one (item 110171823661) was auctioned for a little more than $130. Now is the time to buy one if you want to test it. You can always resell it for a better price in a few months if you don't like it.
Cheers!
Abbazz
You might want to have a look at the Fuji G690 series of rangefinder cameras with interchangeable lenses. There is a link to the modest web page on the subject in my signature. I think this camera should be ideally suited to your needs: it is very sturdy (also heavy, but you stated that you didn't mind), foolproof and easy to operate (the Mamiya Press range has no security against double exposures or blank exposures and it is so easy to waste film by forgetting the dark slide) and all the lenses from 50mm to 180mm are superb. Just add a small lightmeter and you are set.
The eBay seller "shutterblade" has been selling quite a few Fuji G690 cameras lately. It seems that he bought a whole lot for cheap and he is now selling the cameras one by one on eBay. If you look at the pictures of item 110172913932 for example, you will see two labels on the top plate, one reading "Al's Studio" and the other one "Camera No.3".
As there were so many (relatively speaking) G690 sold on eBay recently, the consequence is a price drop. The last one (item 110171823661) was auctioned for a little more than $130. Now is the time to buy one if you want to test it. You can always resell it for a better price in a few months if you don't like it.
Cheers!
Abbazz
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Maxx640
Newbie
Hum... I think it's psychological, never trusted a camera with bellows. Might be worth a try though. What model would give me the equivalent quality of a Press? There are so many out there!
Now that looks interesting! A sort of cheaper Plaubel in a way! The tank like cameras I adore
But the taxes from shutterblade to France are horrible. I once bought a Nikon F4 from them and had a surprise tax fee of 100$:bang:What are the fujis GW series worth? There are lots of models that are in the same price range out on Ebay too.
I was wondering of the efficiency of a press camera for a quick shot... it looks to me the kind you need to set up and take your time with, am I right?
Max
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
The GW series are nice cameras with great lenses. A GW690 (equipped with a 90mm normal-wide lens) + a GSW690 (with a wide 65mm lens) weight approximately the same as an old GL690 with the 100mm + 65mm lens.Maxx640 said:
Here's the excellent Camerapedia page on the GW690 series:
http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Fujica_GW690
And the one about the old G690 series:
http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Fujica_G690
I find the big Fuji rangefinders on the average easier and quicker to operate than the press cameras.Maxx640 said:
The worst -- but also the most versatile -- system is the Mamiya Press. These cameras have no built-in safeties, so it is possible to remove the lens without closing the dark slide, trip the shutter with the dark slide closed, or inadvertently shoot two exposures without advancing the film. The Mamiya cameras, when equipped with a rollfilm back and a lens, are also the bulkiest of the gang.
The Koni-Omega series have safeties against lens removal without closing the dark slide and locks preventing blank or double exposures. They are smaller than the Mamiya Press but shoot only 6x7 format on rollfilm, whereas the Mamiya can shoot almost anything, from 4.5x6 on rollfilm to Polaroid and sheet film.
To me the press cameras (Mamiya, Koni-Omega, Linhof, Graflex) are better suited for studio or landscape photography on a tripod. The Fuji cameras can be used for snapshots or street photography: I use a GL690 with either the 50mm lens set on hyperfocal (an ultrawide almost equivalent to a 20mm lens on a 35mm camera) or the 100mm AE lens (reliable auto-exposure is great for snapshots).
But if you are after efficiency, a Mamiya 7 should be better suited with its built-in lightmeter.
You seem to be located in France, so you might want to search the Galerie-photo forum. There are a few threads about these cameras:
http://www.galerie-photo.org/n-f-99210.html
Cheers!
Abbazz
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shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
That's why I mentioned CLA'd. Fixing pinhole leaks on bellows are easy, but if you want total assurance, have it replaced. Here's my priority in selecting an MF folder:Maxx640 said:
1. Good lens: Tessar, Solinar, Skopar, or the mega-expensive Heliar.
2. Rangefinder optional, but do look for an MF folder that has the hot-shoe, to put an external rangefinder.
3. Reserve some money for CLA. Starting from 55 USD.
The Fuji GW* are very interesting and they take marvellous pictures, but be warned that they are BIG, and the rangefinder patch is pretty dim.Maxx640 said:Now that looks interesting! A sort of cheaper Plaubel in a way! The tank like cameras I adore
What are the fujis GW series worth? There are lots of models that are in the same price range out on Ebay too.
I was wondering of the efficiency of a press camera for a quick shot... it looks to me the kind you need to set up and take your time with, am I right?
Max
R
rich815
Guest
The way I discovered MF and the joys of Fuji MF cameras was when I saw a coffee table book of India. The photos were of such brilliance, smoothness, sharpness and depth that I just had to know what camera was used. It was a Fuji GW690III. Sorry I cannot reference the book I will just say that after that I bought one and the 6x9 negs from that lens are simply amazing and I started an entire website devoted to Fuji RF cameras after that. The RF patch on mine is quite bright and contrasty perhaps older ones may suffer I do not know. They can be had used in great condition typically arond $800-1000 USD.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
shadowfox said:
The Fuji GW690 series have nice almost Leica-like viewfinders.
The Fuji G690 and GW690 series may be a BIG HANDFUL - but the RF patch on my GW670 spanks those on my folders. Plus, the frame lines on the big Fuji not only compensate for parallax - they also shrink the field of view at near focus.
oftheherd
Veteran
Maxx640 said:
Sorry I didn't get to answer this sooner. I prefer the Super Press 23 as the bellows gives more versatility. I don't use the bellows much, but a nice feature. The bellows aren't really for close ups. That is what the extention tubes are for. The bellows are more for perspective and focus control. Only you can decide if that would be a plus or not. Yes, the 100mm lens is the normal lens.
There is another answer on the thread that the Super Press 23 had no protection agains double exposure or exposure with or without the darkslide in. That is correct. I consider it a learning/teaching thing. I taught myself to wind the film after every exposure. It is then always on a fresh part of film. I do the same with my folders. You can indeed leave the dark slide in or out, just like you can leave the lens cap on or off. Some things we just have to train ourselves to check.
Good luck in your decisions.