Portraiture - Request for Review/Assistance

My comments:
-) Open up at least two more stops - the background is much to focussed and is really distracting.
-) Frank has got it right - you need ONE stronger lightsource (and that could very well be your Vivtar 285, maybe hooked up parallel to a second, similar type of flash, or one of those lamp-socket slave flash thingies you mentioned previously)), slightly of axis and slightly above eye-level, and diffused (you are shooting a bride - she should look all bright and fluffy and warm, etc., not contrasty and sinister, with lots of strong shadows on her face) - if you don't have a white umbrella that you could fix to the tripod (if you don't want to buy a special device for that, just use duct tape!), just shoot through some white silk or whatever you have; forget about the hairlight, without modelling lights it is very hard to judge the results, just have an assistant (i.e. your wife) hold a reflector (i.e. a large piece of white styrofoam or cardboard) to get some light onto the hair.
I have plenty of pics I took of my clients with a setup like that, but unfortunately I am not allowed to show those publicly (it is against the privacy rules in our organization) - I asked the friend who I did the light for for shooting a book cover, to send me that image, because unfortunately I don't have it on my computer, but I will post it if he sends it to me - that pic. was shot exactly with a setup like I mentioned...

Roman
 
Bill - i don't know much about lighting setups, BUT, on photo.net lighting forum there are/were posts called "Weekly lioghtingtechniques" or something like that (look for "Weekly" and all-capitals titles) from pro people which i have found very very very good and practical. Illustrated, of course. Many of them talk about amateur possibilities; many of them have lotsa contributions from different people.
 
Thanks, all! I have actually gone through and printed out all your responses, and will be reading them most voraciously!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
Purchased:

1 Hama HAMCA3 Multi-Sync (PC 3x) Adapter
2 General Brand GBPCPCC15 PC Male to PC Female Coiled Cord - 15'
1 Paterson PAIU39T Umbrella, White Translucent - 39"
2 Impact IMLS6B Light Stand - 6'- Black
2 Impact IMBSM Umbrella Bracket
1 SP-Systems SP72PCT 72 AC Strobe, PC
2 Kodak KOP80036 Portra-800 135-36 Professional Color Print Film
2 Ilford ILD320036 Delta-3200 Professional 135-36 Black & White Print Film
2 Ilford ILD40036 Delta-400 Professional 135-36 Black & White Print Film
5 Kodak KOP400NC120P Portra-400NC 120 Professional Color Print Film
5 Kodak KOP160NC36PP Portra-160NC 135-36 Professional Color Print Film
10 Kodak KOP400NC36PP Portra-400NC 135-36 Professional Color Print Film

I'm not done yet, still mulling over the continuous lighting situation - I agree that it is easier for a newb like me to control when I can 'see' what's happening (and can't afford strobes w/good modeling lights built in). Still, I think most of this kit will be able to see me through for awhile until I outgrow it - or discover that I really stink on ice. The film is already paid for by the client, so it really wasn't too expensive (I keep telling myself).

Thanks again for EVER BUDDY'S advice! I truly appreciate it! I know that the solution to the problem is less about equipment and more about skill - like most things. But I *do* need *some* equipment...I hope I've chosen wisely.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
Wayne R. Scott said:
Bill,

...

I have attached an example of a single light source photo. The light source is a single mono-light shot through a home made diffusion panel 2 foot by six foot in size. The panel is almost touching the child just out of view camera left. Notice the mother's left check and how the highlight gradually turns into shadow. There is no distinct hard edged transiton of light to shadow. This is what a diffused light source will do for you. Note that this is in effect a very large light source 2'x6'.
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Wayne,

First of all, thank you so much! I read your advice and it really makes sense to me. I think I can make good use of it. The photo you enclosed - is this an example of what they call 'Rembrandt Lighting?'

It is late and I am going to be rambling here a bit. I think you have too many light sources in your examples and do not have control over any of them. With out a modeling light on your flash you can not have a pre-visualized idea of the outcome.
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Gotcha. OK, I can scotch the flash.

Camera Position. I think that your camera position is too low in your examples. The lens axis needs to be slightly above the eyes of your subject. I also think that the focal length of the lens looks to be that of a normal lens, it should be a bit longer for head and shoulders shots. 85mm to 135mm in 35mm cameras, 135mm to 180mm in medium format, and 240mm to about 300mm in 4x5.
Click to expand...

Strangely, my subject (my lovely and patient wife) was seated, and my tripod had the camera just above her eyebrows in terms of height. I could go higher, but I had the center column down all the way - legs fully extended. The lens I used was a classic post WWII-era Carl Zeiss Jena 80mm f2.8 Tessar (coated) on a 35mm camera. In all but the first photo, I was maybe 6 feet from my subject. I can do 90mm, 105mm, or 135mm and be able to open up to at least f2.8.

This is not all. I commend you for experimenting before the photo session and not afterwards.
Click to expand...

I don't always do the smart thing, but I try...

I will give you a couple of websites later when I recall them.

Wayne
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I can't tell you how much I appreciate your information! Thanks!

Bill
 
Bill,

I don't know if I would call the example Rembrandt lighting, the mom is not wearing a Golden Helmet. I would call it short lighting with a modified loop. Look at the nose shadow on the mother. It really should form a small loop and go down and almost touch the corner of her mouth. I did not have my main light high enough, so although there is a a loop shadow from her nose it does not extend down toward her mouth. The short lighting term refers to the narrow side of her face having the mainlight strike it and the broader side of her face is in shadow. The daughter is actually broad ligthted or split lighted, as half of her face is in light and half is in deep shadow.

As far as camera postion, I was trying to think of a nice way to say that when you photograph people with ample proportions and faces that are round and have a double chin you should shoot from a high angle, maybe even two feet or more above their eye level. If there is a rule that should be followed in photography it is Never, never broad light a healthy proportioned woman. Short lighting and a high camera angle will make her face seem slimmer.

You can use your existing flash with a modelling light, it will have to be Mac Guiver'ed. I have taken a Maglight flash light, after turning off all of the room lights and getting the room as dark as possible, hold the flash light next to the flash so that it is pointing toward the subject and observe how the light stikes your subject , move around with the flash on stand until you have a pleasing pattern. Then move to your next light. This is a Mickey Mouse way of doing it, but when I had no money for "good lighting systems" this is what I did. If you tell you victim what you are doing they will more than understand.
It will help eliminate suprises when you get your film back from being developed.

I have attached a photo done with window light and 2 reflectors. One of the white reflectors is the background to eleminate the pews in the church and the other is silver and is actually low camera left. you can see the silver reflector in the catch lights in their eyes. Two minutes to set up and shoot.

Wayne
 
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Thanks again, guys! I will check out the links - and no offense on the 'advice' re big people. I'm a big person - 5-10 and 270. Don't bother me none.

Best,

Bill
 
OK, I finally found that book-cover again that I was talking about:

http://www.rollo-ver.com/

- my friend Ronnie shot that with a Kiev, the model is his cousin; I set up the light - the Hama flash bracket mentioned before, with a Vivitar 283, a Metz MZ40, and one of those light-socket type slave flashes, shining through a white umbrella w/ about 1m diameter; flash was situated about 30° off-axis to the right of the photographer, fairly low - at eye-level (we did not want shadows from the brim of the hat covering the eyes. One small white reflector was used from below on the left side, also to minimize shadows from the brim (I would leave that out now, to bring a little more contrast into the face.)
Wanted to show this so you see that one can get quite acceptable results (OK, not as good as from a real pro, I have to admit) withoug getting a lot of gear...

Roman
 
Roman said:
OK, I finally found that book-cover again that I was talking about:

http://www.rollo-ver.com/

- my friend Ronnie shot that with a Kiev, the model is his cousin; I set up the light - the Hama flash bracket mentioned before, with a Vivitar 283, a Metz MZ40, and one of those light-socket type slave flashes, shining through a white umbrella w/ about 1m diameter; flash was situated about 30° off-axis to the right of the photographer, fairly low - at eye-level (we did not want shadows from the brim of the hat covering the eyes. One small white reflector was used from below on the left side, also to minimize shadows from the brim (I would leave that out now, to bring a little more contrast into the face.)
Wanted to show this so you see that one can get quite acceptable results (OK, not as good as from a real pro, I have to admit) withoug getting a lot of gear...

Roman
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Roman, very cool, thank you for the advice and for sharing that cool book cover! Very amusing!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
Bill, here's one more tidbit of advice: Move the subject away from the background and use a wide aperture with shallow depth of field so that the background is soft and only the subject is sharp. A common "look" of beginning photographers' portraits is the subject up against a wall (and looking straight-on).
 
FrankS said:
Bill, here's one more tidbit of advice: Move the subject away from the background and use a wide aperture with shallow depth of field so that the background is soft and only the subject is sharp. A common "look" of beginning photographers' portraits is the subject up against a wall (and looking straight-on).
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Frank, thank you. One thing I've been reading in the couple books on portraiture I picked up indicated that f8 is a common aperture for portraits. I was wondering about that, because I kind of thought that a more open lens would be 'better' in the sense that a blurred background gives that 3D feel - assuming that the lens is sufficiently sharp wide-open and that DOF is sufficients deep to keep ALL the person's face/head/body in focus.

Just some thoughts I had.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
Depends alot on the background and the space you have behind your subject and the light. A background that is not too busy and can be placed far behind your subject permits an f/8 aperture. I recall reading on a guy's webpage, pro photographer with a mamiya MF system, who uses a 75-150 zoom (i think) with a not-too-fast aperture and he firmly says, f/8 is great for him both sharpness-wise and unsharp-background-wise.
There's an equilibrium between enough DOF for allowing focusing errors and too much DOF especially in a tight space, or in casual portraits where you can't direct your subject.

For the type of portraits you've shown, i guess an aperture as wide as possible would be good.

As to the 3D effect, you need a good lighting for that too. The subject must stand out being better lit / brighter than the background; rim lighting can help in this, as well as choosing a background that is in shadow. Two stops of lighting difference between your subject and your background works quite well.

Then you have the weird stuff, like high- or low-key, where the background is lit just as good (or just as bad) as the subject, but then it needs to be flat flat and flat. No brick pattern, no flowers, no kitchen, because anything will distract.

Then there's the "easiest" way, finding a background that helps the subject. Example, a very repetitive pattern in the background, will make the subject really stand out.

These are just how i see the thing. No years of experience behind, no big money earned with portrait photography, just my oppinion based on some observations.
 
Be careful going trying to minimize depth of field. I've missed too many shots trying to shoot wide open and having my subject move a little closer, or me not focusing correctly under pressure. On my 90mm, f8 is less than half a meter DOF at a focusing distance of 1.5M. That's plenty good unless your subject is up against a wall.

Here's an interesting link for a three light setup:
http://www.phototechmag.com/previous-articles/2003/so-lane/lane.html
 
Point well taken, thanks. I had to run to my Knights of Columbus meeting earlier. Home now. Anybody want to buy some raffle tickets? Only $5.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
Wayne,

Once again, I offer my thanks! I spent the evening reading the 'book' online that you provided the link to. Lots of stuff there!

I am not sure I always 'see' his examples - in a couple of cases, when he says that the portrait on the left is bad and the one on the right is good, I just don't see it. In most cases, yes. But sometimes I don't see what he is talking about. However, it's good, good, stuff. Thank you!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
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