Possible bad batch of TRI-X?

[burancap]

All,

Two rolls of TRI-X shot in two different cameras.
Developed the first two rolls in D-76 uneventfully -NADA!

Shot a third test roll in yet a different camera.
Developed it in Ilfosol 3 uneventfully -NADA!

The only common ground is that the TRI-X was locally sourced at the same time and unexpired. Is it possible that I simply got a bad batch?

 

[Mackinaw]

Any markings along the edge of the film? E.G. frame numbers, etc.?

 

[sevo]

So what does "NADA" look like? Blank? Blank with edge numbers? Black?

I have never encountered a bad batch of any film, from whatever maker and regardless how expired (and some were 50 years past expiration) that was blank - bad batches may have a wrong sensitivity, poor (whether low or high) contrast, fogging, stripes and holes. In addition, expired film that has been "visually inspected" by some previous owner may be black. But blank generally is a processing issue - or a shutter/lens cap issue if the edge numbers are fine.

 

[jpa66]

So what does "NADA" look like? Blank? Blank with edge numbers? Black?

I have never encountered a bad batch of any film, from whatever maker and regardless how expired (and some were 50 years past expiration) that was blank - bad batches may have a wrong sensitivity, poor (whether low or high) contrast, fogging, stripes and holes. In addition, expired film that has been "visually inspected" by some previous owner may be black. But blank generally is a processing issue - or a shutter/lens cap issue if the edge numbers are fine.

I tend to agree with sevo. That's what it sounds like to me.

 

[burancap]

Thanks folks!

*NADA = Clear, no markings.

It sounds like something in developing...

1.) All film bought at same time, unexpired.

2.) Three different cameras, including an SLR.

3.) First two in FRESH D-76 without issue.

4.) Third in FRESH Ilfosol 3 without issue.

5.) ALL three rolls CLEAR -no markings.

This would lead me to...

A.) FIX before DEV - did not happen.

B.) Bad DEV - both FRESH.

C.) Bad film.

 

[MartinP]

Short answer to the OP's question, no.

Perhaps you and we are curious about what happened, but there is no real description in the post.

As well as the possibilities suggested by Sevo, it would be a good idea to be 100% certain that there was no contamination of the different developers with either stop-bath or fixer. In either case, no development would take place and the fixer would remove the undeveloped (ie. all) silver remaining leaving a totally blank film - similar to the effect one would have by using the fixer in place of the developer, which is a classic mistake that people make only once.

For further fault-finding in this problem, please can the OP describe precisely what he found on the film after processing?

EDIT: The above was posted at the same time as the OP replied.

So, look at contamination of your measuring vessels, viability of the developers etc.

In order to check the viability of the developers as they now are, snip a few cm of film leader in daylight and place in a small amount of the developer (diluted in the case of the Ilfosol) in a cleaned jam-jar or similar (hence avoiding using your usual tanks etc as they may have a contamination problem themselves). Of course the film should turn black, if it does not then the problem is obvious. If the pieces of film behave as expected then consider contamination of every measure, tank, reel, funnel etc. Wash everything thoroughly and try again.

For testing purposes, only a few exposures are needed and can be cut from the same exposed roll in the dark.

One hopes that someone has not sold you a bulk-reel of Tri-X which is actually blank movie-leader, which would be easy to see of course but it is a remote possibility.

 

[burancap]

a totally blank film - similar to the effect one would have by using the fixer in place of the developer, which is a classic mistake that people make only once.

This certainly would have to be the case, but I could NOT have done that twice... Or could I have??? 😱

I have never had an issue before, though I am back to developing after a 25 year break.

I will shoot another roll and run it this evening.

 

[stompyq]

So many things could have gone wrong other than what you list. Lens cap on and film not loaded correctly in the camera are common mistakes and i'am not even going to the more obscure ones. Like another poster stated getting blank rolls has always been a mistake at my end and not the films fault. Been there done that....

Thanks folks!

*NADA = Clear, no markings.

It sounds like something in developing...

1.) All film bought at same time, unexpired.

2.) Three different cameras, including an SLR.

3.) First two in FRESH D-76 without issue.

4.) Third in FRESH Ilfosol 3 without issue.

5.) ALL three rolls CLEAR -no markings.

This would lead me to...

A.) FIX before DEV - did not happen.

B.) Bad DEV - both FRESH.

C.) Bad film.

 

[sevo]

You are dead positive you did not accidentally purchase colour blix (bleach-fix) rather than black and white fixer?

 

[MartinP]

Just to reiterate what I posted when I updated my post above (we were all posting simultaneously, very confusing).

Test the developers before running another roll through. If they are somehow dead, then it will save you a lot of time and materials to find out in advance of doing another roll.

What Sevo said about the bleach-fix is yet another possibility. What sort of fix did you use?!

 

[stompyq]

Didn't know that stuff was even commonly available anymore separately. I thought they were only available as part of a kit.

You are dead positive you did not accidentally purchase colour blix (bleach-fix) rather than black and white fixer?

 

[kdemas]

I know this will sound crazy but I had a similar circumstance once when processing with Rodinal. The culprit....the water I used.

I can't tell you why but I switched brands of distilled water and something in the new brand caused the Rodinal to do absolutely nothing. I had a thread on this some time back. After switching back to the old brand, same Rodinal, no problem. Checked the "new" water with another test roll and...same thing, blank.

Anyway, just a thought. I wouldn't believe it was possible unless it had happened to me.

Hope you find the issue soon!

Kent

 

[burancap]

blank rolls has always been a mistake at my end and not the films fault.

This will certainly end up being the case.

It is just odd that this happened back to back with the same film. I had developed other (not TRI-X) film alongside the rolls in question w/o issue. This just may end up being incredible coincidence...

I will try again this evening -lightning can't strike thrice...

Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[burancap]

Chems - everything was new (fresh)...

Kodak: D-76 and Fixer (not blix)
Ilford: I3, Stop, and Fix

I simply must have fixed before dev (twice!) with TRI-X taking the blame! We will find out tonight!

Thanks so much!

 

[Dwig]

If you can, dig in the trash to find the leader I suspect you trimmed before loading the reels. If you can find it dunk it into one of the developers and see if it turns black. Repeat in the other developer. If it fails to turn black, try the leader from a roll out of a different batch of film (even color film).

 

[leicapixie]

Many decades ago, i exposed and developed 2 rolls of Tri-X from a bulk load. They were blank. I visited Kodak and showed them my films..
I was told there had been use of fixer first. I knew not possible as the developer had a brownish color, Rodinal and the fixer was perhaps a yellow. I brought my bulk roll in the loader. Kodak shot a roll before me and showed a healthy exposed film..
i went home and used the rest of the roll. 2 rolls of 36 and one of about 20 exp(at Kodak)
The "faulty roll gave me almost another 18 rolls of 36! It meant the roll had been changed. Too many rolls. I think it can happen a roll not all sensitized.
However clean your reels very thoroughly, the tank and cap. Suggest making new chemicals in fresh containers..

 

[burancap]

If you can, dig in the trash to find the leader I suspect you trimmed before loading the reels. If you can find it dunk it into one of the developers and see if it turns black. Repeat in the other developer. If it fails to turn black, try the leader from a roll out of a different batch of film (even color film).

Great idea!

Had everything...

1.) Original TRI-X leader in original D-76: BLACK
2.) Original TRI-X leader in original I3: BLACK
3.) Original TRI-X leader in fresh, undiluted I3: BLACK
4.) Fresh HP5 leader in original D-76: BLACK
5.) Fresh HP5 leader in original I3: BLACK
6.) Fresh HP5 leader in fresh, undiluted I3: BLACK

7.) Original TRI-X leader in original K Fixer: CLEAR
8.) Original TRI-X leader in original ISTOP: CLEAR
9.) Original TRI-X leader in fresh, undiluted ISTOP: CLEAR
10.) Fresh HP5 leader in original K Fixer: CLEAR
11.) Fresh HP5 leader in original ISTOP: CLEAR
12.) Fresh HP5 leader in fresh, undiluted ISTOP: CLEAR

It would seem that I somehow managed to FIX before DEV not once, but twice in a row at two different times! My bottles are even different between DEV and FIX, so I either had too much coffee or not enough Scotch.

I am halfway through a fresh roll right now and I will run it tonight with all fresh chems. So we should know definitively in a few hours.

I will happily let you all know what happens -and should they come out, I will happily admit that I messed up -just don't tell my wife!

 

[nikon_sam]

When I develop B&W film I mix my Developer, develop the film (normally) Then and only then do I pour out (measure) the amount of Fixer that I'll need for the tank or amount of rolls that need fixing...(I'll do this while the film is rinsing)
I don't have the Fixer premeasured and ready to go until after I've developed the film...
As far as I know I've never developed a roll with Fixer...

 

[burancap]

Just finished and I have... Good negatives!

Clearly not enough Scotch and I musta' grabbed the FIX first -twice. So, yes -it would appear that I messed up...

Sorry for a rather uneventful conclusion but there were many good points and process changes offered here that will help me and perhaps others in the future! For that, I can't thank all of you enough!

Now to do something about that Scotch! Cheers!

 

[Dana B.]

Congrats on your new results. I've done the same thing: fixed the roll first and found clear daylight.

For years, Tri-X has been my dope. But I went to Freestyle in Hollywood today and bought three five-packs of 120 and paid $75. Almost had a heart attack. They're now selling MF TX400 now for $5.50 per roll.

While it's $20 for a five-pack (or $4.50 per single roll) at Adorama, I'm considering experimentiing with Arista 400 at $2.79, or Ilford HP-5, at $3.89. Meanwhile, slower films such as Fuji Neopan 100 (just got 15 rolls) run $16 for five.