lynnb
Veteran
...forgot to mention, another big time saver is a Wacom Intuos graphics tablet, more so for Photoshop than for LR. I just love mine.
Frontman
Well-known
Just do it. I learned in the Army (and later in other places) that the best way to get difficult tasks completed is to do them without wasting time thinking about how you feel about doing them. Close the door on your lazy body's complaints and let your mind work without interference.
I disagree with the notion of shooting less, you don't have to edit the pics you don't like, so taking them in the first place doesn't really waste that much time. Quality is of course better than quantity, but when one is lacking the other must take it's place. If things work out well, you can get both quality and quantity at the same time.
I disagree with the notion of shooting less, you don't have to edit the pics you don't like, so taking them in the first place doesn't really waste that much time. Quality is of course better than quantity, but when one is lacking the other must take it's place. If things work out well, you can get both quality and quantity at the same time.
RFH
rfhansen.wordpress.com
When you write “ all the images selected for final editing (approx 120) have been post processed" I can't help to think that you may be overworking yourself. Why not choose first, then edit?
photogdave
Shops local
I share your frustrations Keith. This is one of the big reasons I prefer to shoot film. Maybe it's the way I'm wired, but I just find it much easier and straightforward to shoot my film, have the lab develop it at a measly $5 per roll and get it on the light table to pick out the frames I like. Then I can scan those frames, process and I'm done.
EVERY TIME I shoot digital I end up with a file folder full of shots that I just don't want to deal with and I end up putting it off and sometimes completely forgetting about it. Maybe I don't like looking at thumbnails on a computer screen.
I've shot my fair share of weddings over the years but never done it full time. I shot a wedding digitally once and was totally put off by the workflow. (No problems with the image quality though!)
For my next wedding I shot everything on film, had the lab develop and print, chose the best shots from the proof prints, scanned those and made an Apple iPhoto book for the clients. Saved me tonnes of time, and the clients got a completed book, digital backups and the original negs.
EVERY TIME I shoot digital I end up with a file folder full of shots that I just don't want to deal with and I end up putting it off and sometimes completely forgetting about it. Maybe I don't like looking at thumbnails on a computer screen.
I've shot my fair share of weddings over the years but never done it full time. I shot a wedding digitally once and was totally put off by the workflow. (No problems with the image quality though!)
For my next wedding I shot everything on film, had the lab develop and print, chose the best shots from the proof prints, scanned those and made an Apple iPhoto book for the clients. Saved me tonnes of time, and the clients got a completed book, digital backups and the original negs.
btgc
Veteran
What I hear: man shoots film at weddings (Pickett Wilson, hi there!) and drops film at local lab for proofs. Selected frames go back for printing in needed size with remarks for printer, though they are good at printing for faces if they are present in shot. Bride gets 20-30 prints, which have chance to be viewed instead of 1000 digifiles on disc.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Keith,
I know you didn't mean it.
But thinking that achieving darkroom printing expertise is just a matter of "hiding" and somehow is easier to achieve than herding hundreds of digital files, that is quite far off the mark.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
You don't happen to work for Nike do you?
You're right of course ... less complaining and more work would help my problem.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I was thinking more in terms of personal rewards Wil. These paid jobs tie me in knots partially due to the perfectionist in me and partially due to not quite having total confidence in my output. I remember the first gallery opening I photographed for these people with my M8 ... I spent untold hours fiddling, editing, re-fiddling, re-editing etc etc before finally burning to disc. I delivered the disc personally to the curator of the gallery who asked me to hang around while she popped the disc into her laptob to have a gander ... I think that was one of the most anxious few seconds of my life! Talk about performance anxiety! LOL
In a perfect world I'd be creating beautiful black and white prints in my own darkroom and having people pay me two or three hundred dollars for them as I complete them ... and not have to deal with all this photography on demand digital angst!
I can dream!
gavinlg
Veteran
Keith, I don't really know how ACDsee works - I've never tried it, so I'm not sure how it compares to lightroom, but it sounds as if your computer is struggling a little with the workload as well. Might I suggest a basic upgrade to speed it up a little bit? I know when I have to work with a slow computer it makes me want to tear my hair out.
If you're on a windows PC, you should be able to upgrade the RAM very easily. For maybe $100-$200 you could double or triple the ram, and speed it up considerably. That way you mightn't have to convert the RAW files to TIFFs in the first place.
If you're on a windows PC, you should be able to upgrade the RAM very easily. For maybe $100-$200 you could double or triple the ram, and speed it up considerably. That way you mightn't have to convert the RAW files to TIFFs in the first place.
Gray Fox
Well-known
Keith, I think I've been where you are at least a couple of times over the last 35 years, trying to make a few bucks and gather some approval from people you respect via your photography. One quickly arrives at the chicken or the egg situation regarding how much time and money you think you need to invest in order to do more business--hopefully it is available--so you can get the gear (and now the software) you think you need to do the business better and make more money to pay for more gear or temporary help. It's easy to meet yourself coming and going. Then, as has been mentioned, it's not too hard for your passion to become your personally concocted poison. I've had periods where I haven't made a single image in almost a year.
It's hard to reconcile the feeling of discovery and adventure that you found in restoring the old negs and graciously sharing them with all of us here and the great feedback the rolls generated, with the funk you now find yourself in. You cut brush, I split firewood. I guess you may just need to muck through this set of tasks, take a break, and then try to resolve for yourself whether you want to subject your mind to this again. Have a serious talk with the guy in the shaving mirror in the morning and see what you come up with. GF
It's hard to reconcile the feeling of discovery and adventure that you found in restoring the old negs and graciously sharing them with all of us here and the great feedback the rolls generated, with the funk you now find yourself in. You cut brush, I split firewood. I guess you may just need to muck through this set of tasks, take a break, and then try to resolve for yourself whether you want to subject your mind to this again. Have a serious talk with the guy in the shaving mirror in the morning and see what you come up with. GF
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Hi Gav,
ACDSee Pro pretty well does all of what Lightroom does but with an interface that I'm totally familiar with and when I tried Lightroom I soon realised that there was no real advantage for me.
My computer by todays standards is crap and I do have a complete new system planned in the next few months. There's a great place in Milton called U-Mart where I recently bought a hard drive, they have an enormous range and are very cheap. My son is very good with these things and can put something together for me for well under a grand that will blow the doors off what I have.
I really noticed how dated my computing power was when I went from the M8 to the D700. 10 megapixels ~ just OK ... 12 ~ really struggling!
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
You write some awsome truths ... would you like to be my councellor?
Seriously ... thanks.
Gray Fox
Well-known
Keith: Glad you found the thoughts appropriate. Got to have that discussion with the guy in the mirror myself. Physician heal thyself, I guess. Best of luck from half way 'round the globe. GF
bigeye
Well-known
After I spend a night updating editing or scanner software, I want to yell, "This isn't what I signed up for!!!"
- Charlie
- Charlie
Last edited:
ederek
Well-known
Keith - just saw this thread and I can certainly relate! Hope you've knocked these two jobs off now, but if not, just remember "there's nothin' to it, but to do it". A motto I struggle to live by...
It is unlikely you really have a camera gear / shooting style / software / workflow / computer / publishing issue. It's likely more of orientation and personal expectations.
I once read the book "Too Perfect: When being in control gets out of control".
http://www.amazon.com/Too-Perfect-When-Being-Control/dp/0449908003
Perhaps that would help with a few ideas to get unstuck and move things along. The following suggestion resonates:
Brilliant. I'm reminded of your Images / Photos / Snapshots thread. There's your A-game where you create images that are the best you can do. Then there is commercial work for a client, and the difference between delivering an A or a B-level product may not even be noticeable to the client.
The client typically wants the images as soon after the event as possible (sometimes during the event!). That's when the buzz is happening and the social conversation is still alive. Content rules at this time, and the details are rarely noticed.
Perhaps you could adopt a hybrid approach. Immediately after the event, review the digital images and select only the best. Widdle this down to 5 or so images that you can provide to the client almost immediately. Then, provide the remaining deliverable in a reasonable timeframe. This way, they have several images that represent the event that they can use for promotion, website use and other news-type functions. Plus, these will be your best images, so it increases the chance of the client circulating an image you really like. People will probably never even see the other 80% of images you deliver later, which you completed without so much pressure and post-processed knowing it was part B.
Now, to the gear / workflow / etc: these things don't hurt either, once you're ready to tackle the job and put out an appropriate product.
+1. A RAM upgrade is one of the best bangs for the buck. You mentioned a new computer will be put together for you in the next month or two. It might be worth looking at the planned system, and then buy just the memory now if it will work in your current computer. Use it for the next couple months, then move it over to the new computer when that arrives. You can put the current memory back in the existing computer and save that as a dedicated scan unit so scanning can run while you post process on another machine.
Maybe so. I will say the additional publishing features in LR 3 are a great addition. Presets are super as well. The catalog feature can be very handy in narrowing down the images and arriving at a final set for processing. This post hits right on this:
Also, as someone mentioned, don't waste time processing any images that may not be included in the final product.
Wish you the best with this Keith, it can certainly be difficult when the post-processing piles up. Unfortunately, there is not easy answer..
It is unlikely you really have a camera gear / shooting style / software / workflow / computer / publishing issue. It's likely more of orientation and personal expectations.
I once read the book "Too Perfect: When being in control gets out of control".
http://www.amazon.com/Too-Perfect-When-Being-Control/dp/0449908003
Perhaps that would help with a few ideas to get unstuck and move things along. The following suggestion resonates:
Brilliant. I'm reminded of your Images / Photos / Snapshots thread. There's your A-game where you create images that are the best you can do. Then there is commercial work for a client, and the difference between delivering an A or a B-level product may not even be noticeable to the client.
The client typically wants the images as soon after the event as possible (sometimes during the event!). That's when the buzz is happening and the social conversation is still alive. Content rules at this time, and the details are rarely noticed.
Perhaps you could adopt a hybrid approach. Immediately after the event, review the digital images and select only the best. Widdle this down to 5 or so images that you can provide to the client almost immediately. Then, provide the remaining deliverable in a reasonable timeframe. This way, they have several images that represent the event that they can use for promotion, website use and other news-type functions. Plus, these will be your best images, so it increases the chance of the client circulating an image you really like. People will probably never even see the other 80% of images you deliver later, which you completed without so much pressure and post-processed knowing it was part B.
Now, to the gear / workflow / etc: these things don't hurt either, once you're ready to tackle the job and put out an appropriate product.
+1. A RAM upgrade is one of the best bangs for the buck. You mentioned a new computer will be put together for you in the next month or two. It might be worth looking at the planned system, and then buy just the memory now if it will work in your current computer. Use it for the next couple months, then move it over to the new computer when that arrives. You can put the current memory back in the existing computer and save that as a dedicated scan unit so scanning can run while you post process on another machine.
Maybe so. I will say the additional publishing features in LR 3 are a great addition. Presets are super as well. The catalog feature can be very handy in narrowing down the images and arriving at a final set for processing. This post hits right on this:
x3. I watched a friend I shoot with do in an hour what takes me (it seems) an entire weekend. I think it's true that achieving some fluency with computer PP is the key to keeping your sanity.
Also, as someone mentioned, don't waste time processing any images that may not be included in the final product.
Wish you the best with this Keith, it can certainly be difficult when the post-processing piles up. Unfortunately, there is not easy answer..
jan normandale
Film is the other way
@Keith. This thread is curiously close to my present circumstances. I'm scanning and editing images from about 20 years of graffiti in Toronto. I'm now at a point where the whole process has become a chore. I don't think I'll do a project of this nature again now I understand all of the implications. Much of the process is like the proverbial iceberg, it's only 10 percent visible the other 90 percent is hidden from view.
I think you have to be narrow minded and driven to finish. Drop all outside communication that's not in line with your project. Set a daily maximum time for online recreation and socializing. Set and work a daily minimum for the work. It's grunt work but no one knows it better than you do. Finally accessing the various software and using it where it provides a time savings should be used where ever possible.
I'm closing now because my daily allotment of time for online recreation is just about used up.
Good luck!
I think you have to be narrow minded and driven to finish. Drop all outside communication that's not in line with your project. Set a daily maximum time for online recreation and socializing. Set and work a daily minimum for the work. It's grunt work but no one knows it better than you do. Finally accessing the various software and using it where it provides a time savings should be used where ever possible.
I'm closing now because my daily allotment of time for online recreation is just about used up.
Good luck!
Ronald M
Veteran
Farm ot out like the old days. Proof prints and get a CD burned.
That means making JPEGS.
If you mist make raw files, I oepn them all in raw, do a stock curve and generic sharpening and select all, then synchronise these common settings. Then open individually and customise exposure, contrast, and whatever. Then reselect all and open in PS for last twaaking.
Write some action to downsize and do generic sharpening. Automate. You can not obsess over every individual pic unless it is for a publication.
LR does this perhaps more simply, but with less control.
That means making JPEGS.
If you mist make raw files, I oepn them all in raw, do a stock curve and generic sharpening and select all, then synchronise these common settings. Then open individually and customise exposure, contrast, and whatever. Then reselect all and open in PS for last twaaking.
Write some action to downsize and do generic sharpening. Automate. You can not obsess over every individual pic unless it is for a publication.
LR does this perhaps more simply, but with less control.
I think I may be one of the few that actually prefers post production on a computer to working in a darkroom. I can edit while the TVs on, sit in a comfy chair, even eat while doing PP these days... and I can do it at all hours of the day (well, can't print at night with an inkjet though).
That said, there are time when I don't feel like rushing... and pics take awhile to get done. If it's a job, then you just have to do what you have to do. If it's for your own pics, let it sit until you feel like dealing with them. I find it better for editing as well when you let them sit.
That said, there are time when I don't feel like rushing... and pics take awhile to get done. If it's a job, then you just have to do what you have to do. If it's for your own pics, let it sit until you feel like dealing with them. I find it better for editing as well when you let them sit.
charjohncarter
Veteran
The wedding photographers around here are going crazy too. Those brides have way to many choices now.
jan normandale
Film is the other way
LaL.. you're breaking me up!! You're too close to the mark :- )
Last edited: