Post your drum scans (aka the first official Drum Scanners thread)

Focus on the grain

Focus on the grain

In the darkroom days we used to focus the enlarger on the grain using a grain magnifier.

These days most of us scan with CCD and I noticed that even with Nikon 9000ED (4000dpi claimed) the grain is hard to see.

In film, the image is formed by exposing individual grains in the emulsion, and if you don't have enough scan resolution to resolve these, you are not getting the optimum image.

These examples clearly illustrate the advantage of drum scanning since at 5,500 dpi drum resolution, the grain is clearly resolved as in the old darkroom days. Personally I would prefer the 11,000 dpi scan since there are more pixels there for Neat Image's grain removal algorithms to work.

This post clearly illustrated the advantage of drum scanning.

==Doug





As you can see at 11K ppi (on this 6x7 frame it's 745 MegaPixel or 0.75 GigaPixel equivalent) is pretty much pointless on ASA400-class grainy film unless you want gigantic print that looks dense when inspecting it close. A 5500 ppi (186 MegaPixel equivalent) is where it's a good balance between usable detail and grain, IMHO at least.

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Margus[/QUOTE]
 
There is a guy on eBay that does 600mb scans with a Heidelberg drurm scanner. I used him a couple of times , very professional.
 
first, those are really beautiful images, and I am glad to see the drum scans make them look as good as they are!
Thank you for sharing your work and findings with us
 
douglasboyd said:
These days most of us scan with CCD and I noticed that even with Nikon 9000ED (4000dpi claimed) the grain is hard to see.
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not to get too far off topic here, but this is a 6x6 scan of FP4 done with the rather new Plustek 120 scanner, along with a 100% crop from the sky. Grain is clearly visible I'd say.

plustek120fp4.jpg
 
bwcolor said:
Impressive work and very informative, but where do you find parts for your 11000? Is this a matter of purchasing units for parts, or are there dependable suppliers?
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Nothing's fully dependable in the drumscanning world unless you have mighty big budget and can afford brand new drumscanners still in production (Aztek, ICG, Heidelberg and few others).

I get my critical parts from Denmark, ex-ScanView technicians and engineers have picked up the remains.

Some of the parts you can source independently by inspecting their model numbers and see if you can find similar or equivalent.

IMHO mechanical parts are doable (even using CNC-engineering guys when you have to) but the biggest worry is the electrical boards, if something goes wrong there, you're in deep waters.

Some of it depends how good maintenance you give to the scanner and also precision and performance is highly depending on it. I.e. PMT-bias adjustments, drum mechanism alginment, lubing rails, replacing o-rings, clean optical elements and re-check their alignment etc.

I'm a physicist by education so I know few things about the tech thus I do my own maintenance. Here's my scanner getting some regular maintenance:

SDI1066.jpg




Here you see PMT-board - 3 large PMTs are placed inside the big metal box and marked accordingly (RGB colours):
SDI1100.jpg





PMT-modules - note the serial numbers how few of those were made after this scanner has been already years in production. And it's 3 of those modules for each scanner, so it works out around just 30-40 scanners made and sold worldwide:

SDI1101.jpg






However there are things beyond by skillset, such as the electronic boards that I don't have any schematics for so for example I sent this particular board for fault removal and modification to Denmark who have the design know-how and specialized benches to test their boards:

SDI1098.jpg



So Drum Scanners aren't exacly a "walk in the park" type of convenience machines 😀

But when they are maintained and calibrated to their best of their ability and run under skillful operation - results-wise nothing comes close to them. PMT-rendered signal - it's the most "analog" way of digitizing your film work IMO.


Dirk said:
How much does a drum scan cost per negative, and where can I get it done?
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scottyb70 said:
There is a guy on eBay that does 600mb scans with a Heidelberg drurm scanner. I used him a couple of times , very professional.
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Yes, just google "Drum Scanning" and you'll get the picture of the offerings. There are numerous high-end services worldwide. As you notice mostly they are very costly (for the reasons stated already stated in this thread - experience, skills, worktime involved and high running costs) but the results are well worth it if you have found a trustworthy and proven drumscanning service. Just think how much of your best photos are worth and make your own calculations and decisions.


I also do offer independent Drum Scanning Service in Europe for very affordible prices (divide those abovementioned prices by roughly 4 and you come into my pricing range - actually I don't charge per MB, I charge per wet-mount startsheet + frames fitted below that works out alot cheaper for the client and easier for me).

Margus
 
kanzlr said:
not to get too far off topic here, but this is a 6x6 scan of FP4 done with the rather new Plustek 120 scanner, along with a 100% crop from the sky. Grain is clearly visible I'd say.

plustek120fp4.jpg
Click to expand...

I look forward to learning more about the new Plustek 120 scanner. But this picture looks very grainy compared to other Ilford HP4 images on this site. HP4 was discontinued in 1989. I wonder what caused all the grain in this picture.

==Doug
 
I wish I lived in Europe as drum scanning with you would be very affordable. I'm afraid I don't have the knowhow to maintain a drum scanner...
 
tsiklonaut said:
Am I really the only fool in the village apreciating this awesome PMT-technology? 😱 😀
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Only you using? Quite possibly so. Few people have the expertise to operate and maintain machinery like yours (I know I don't) not to mention the space or spare cash.

Only you appreciating? Far from it. I suspect everyone who sees your photos appreciates not only the technology but also your art and craft. I know that I smile each time this thread (or your Flickr) reappears with a new batch of loveliness. Keep them coming!
 
j j said:
Only you using? Quite possibly so. Few people have the expertise to operate and maintain machinery like yours (I know I don't) not to mention the space or spare cash.

Only you appreciating? Far from it. I suspect everyone who sees your photos appreciates not only the technology but also your art and craft. I know that I smile each time this thread (or your Flickr) reappears with a new batch of loveliness. Keep them coming!
Click to expand...

+1....I am in awe...lost for words...stunned...and so happy to see these quality images!!!!

Keep 'em coming indeed!

Margus, these put a smile on my face everytime I see your posts!:angel:
 
tsiklonaut said:
Am I really the only fool in the village apreciating this awesome PMT-technology? 😱 😀
Click to expand...

I suspect you have more than a few readers around here salivating at your results! But not many of us have stepped up to the plate even to mail out some negs to a drum scan service (I might, someday...)
 
Hello Margus,

I'm stunned. I feel like throwing away the free Epson scanner I got few months ago. Once I'm back to UK, I hope to send some old (from 80's) negs (35 and MF) to you.

Do you have any (youtube) video as to how you scan them or in general a brief overview about PMT scanning techniques? I don't have money, time or intetion to get into such highly technical stuff. I am just very curious about the whole machine and the process after seeing your stunning images and the accompanying notes you've kindly posted. 🙂


Bests,

Ashfaque
 
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