Preferring the amateur body to the pro level one?

I recently bought an FG. It's the camera i wanted as a teenager, and i thought i'd use it as a 'knock-about' camera when i was just out and didn't have any specific photographic intentions.... It's cute. It's small. But, after two weeks, it began to behave erratically.

The meter just blinks join two middle shutter speeds. I thought it might be a battery issue, but i've changed them and cleaned contacts. Sometimes it'll correct itself, but i've found on two occasions that even though it seemed to be fine at home, when i was out and wanted to use it, the flashing came back. And, in AE, the shutter only operated at one speed.

Anyone have any advice other than 'just get another one?' I'm kinda feeling burned by these things. I had tried an FG a few years ago, and that shutter didn't work either.
 
oftheherd said:
Great photos. Are they with the AX5? I once had a 'X3 for a while, but I just couldn't bond with it.

I was curious about what you meant by semiauto. It doesn't have autofocus of course, because that wasn't really in use when it was made. But its AP exposure was great (SBC and accurate); you could usually get more than the 20 seconds they advertised, when needed. For some crime scene photography that was useful with a tripod. No other camera had such built into the body, and so good in low light. It also worked with non-Fujinon lenses by putting it in stop-down mode.

I also have an 801, actually 2, but almost never use them, preferring the 901. I never needed the other 'pro' attributes such as interchangeable screens or motor drives , or whatever. Just the 901, some film, a brace of lenses, and occasionally a flash. Bliss.

EDIT: It just occurred to me you may have meant no Program or Shutter Priority modes. Was that what you were referring to? In an SLR, I think the only camera with SV was some Canon SLR. Nobody at the time had Program that I recall, although it wasn't too long after it that multimode exposures became available. That's my recollection, so if somebody remembers more accurately let me know.
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Sorry for the confusion, with "semi-auto" I usually refer to shutter priority or aperture priority, as "program" for me is "full auto".

The good thing about the AX5 is that you can shoot fully manual (unlike the Canon A-1 and T90), AE priority, shutter priority, program and a sort of TTL.

Mine is a piece of junk, it has been abused for 30 years and looks like it's about to fall apart, I paid 35 euro for it, a 80-200 zoom full with fungus, a scratched 50 mm f1.6 and a half decent 28 mm f2.8, this is a pic I've taken with the Fujinar zoom:

2lw4o6e.jpg


This is with the 28 mm:

20shs46.jpg


Still I think several pros used these "unpro" cameras, the AX5 keeps the shutter open in low light for about 30 secs so if's effective, another cheap camera capable of doing a little bit of everything is the Praktica BC1 which has a very similar finder but just wih a line of leds (and it's just aperture priority)...of course the only camera that keeps the shutter as open as it takes (even hourse if necessary) is the pro Pentax LX so it would have been your perfect "crime camera" but still these two do better than a Canon T90 and F1N to say two names.

Fujinon lenses are great, but unfortunately the cost of the M42 are becoming prohibitive while you can still get some deal with the X mount, the F1.2 is a hidden gem as it looks like it can outperform my Canon FD 50 mm 1.2:

2ce4vp1.jpg


This is taken at f1.2, Aperture priority, XP2 and a YG filter.

I need to get a good AX5, though, possibly chromed, I don't like the dial lock for AE and AEL.

mabelsound said:
Pentax ME Super is exhibit #1 for this notion, IMHO
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I don't have the ME super, but I want to try the Super A, after trying the AX5 in shutter priority with long lenses I found it very useful, the F1N of course has this feature as well but you need the motordrive, so going around with a "pro" F1N, motordrive and perhaps a 80-200 L zoom to chase swans would be overkill...better a lowly unprofessional Fujica AX5 or something like that for this use.
 
I like and use my F, F2AS and F3P quite a bit, but think the metering is vastly better in my FA than in the F2, or F3 (my F is meterless), and I use the FA as much as the other bodies.
 
When I shoot 135, I really like my Minolta SR-T SLRs, which aren't considered professional in the strictest sense, though professionals did use them.

I also like the Minolta X-570 + winder, which is a camera whose body structure is largely polycarbonate. This is a lightweight camera that just works really well and it is compact and light.

I have known of professionals that used Minolta X-700s and X-570s in their work, as they liked the performance and handling of these cameras. Apparently, they were pretty reliable, though they wouldn't have lasted as long as models designed and fortified for professional use. Polycarbonate bodies may even have an advantage in the way of shock absorption for minor bumps.

In many cases, "amateur" models had features not yet available on pro models (like the Canon T90 or the Nikon FA with Nikon's first evaluative metering). Many pros used these cameras, too, even if only as back-up bodies.

The advantage of pro models, of course, is that they are built to take substantial abuse and their shutters are designed for longer life. These features often aren't needed or desired by amateurs, and "amateur" models can produce images of the same quality as the pro models.

- Murray
 
CMur12 said:
...These features often aren't needed or desired by amateurs, and "amateur" models can produce images of the same quality as the pro models.

- Murray
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Hi,

Couldn't agree more, especially if they are using the same lens. Also, I often don't want the weight and bother of the more serious cameras.

Regards, David
 
I like 100% VF'ers on a SLR. If I don't mind loose framing I'll shoot a rangefinder. With Nikon's it is Nikon F3HP, F3P with MD-4, and D3X.

As far as dodgy areas, I perfer the heavier camera like the D3X, or the F3P rigged with MD-4. Understand that I rig these cameras with AH-4 Hand Straps that make them easy to carry all day, ready to shoot straped to my right hand, but also as a weapon being carried in plain sight if I need it. Also less conspicuious than a camera carried with a neck strap.

Wish my SL2-MOT and R8 (with winder) had 100% VF'ers. I like the heft because to me it makes sense that a sniper rifle is generally heavy for stability. I also like to know that I have added durability on my side because even though I am not a working pro I shoot a lot. I don't mind the added exercise of carrying additional weight because it keeps me fit and young.

Cal
 
Modern Photography long ago tested sharpness handheld at different speeds with several Nikons- FM and F2 were two of them. The F2's could be handheld at slower speeds. So the dampening of the shutter and/or mirror seems to be better on the professional models at least. I was never happy with my FM handheld after reading that article -especially comparing it with my F2.

On newer models of Nikon it seems that they are better dampened than the older manual focus cameras of the consumer variety. At least the F100 and N70 I have.
 
besk said:
Modern Photography long ago tested sharpness handheld at different speeds with several Nikons- FM and F2 were two of them. The F2's could be handheld at slower speeds. So the dampening of the shutter and/or mirror seems to be better on the professional models at least. I was never happy with my FM handheld after reading that article -especially comparing it with my F2.

On newer models of Nikon it seems that they are better dampened than the older manual focus cameras of the consumer variety. At least the F100 and N70 I have.
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FWIW . . . I'm 90% certain that's a mass (weight) issue. The much heavier F2 has more inertia and responds slower (compared to the lighter FM) to whatever mirror slap there happens to be.
 
For 80's generation of SLRs I find amateur bodies tend to have more automation which I preferred. The Minolta "creative" cards were a bit over the top though.
 
The earlier comment on the falconry event got me thinking.

Here's my more refined answer: Lighter, later generation bodies for general use. But, when there's a specific need, I'll bring out the pro body.

For example, sometimes, not very often, but sometimes I really want 100% viewfinder. In the film days, that would mean the F2.
 
Wulfthari said:
...

I don't have the ME super, but I want to try the Super A, after trying the AX5 in shutter priority with long lenses I found it very useful, the F1N of course has this feature as well but you need the motordrive, so going around with a "pro" F1N, motordrive and perhaps a 80-200 L zoom to chase swans would be overkill...better a lowly unprofessional Fujica AX5 or something like that for this use.
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I find that interesting that you would prefer shutter priority with long lenses. I learned quickly to watch the led shutter speeds displayed in the 901's viewfinder and open or close the aperture when shutter speed was important. There is nothing wrong with how you do it, it just, I guess, goes with you preference for shutter priority over aperture priority, and for me the way I do it based on my aperture priority preference.

I have programmed exposure on my FX103 and my 167mt. I just never liked that because I wouldn't know what my aperture and shutter speed was that way. I know its advantage for fast shooting, but as I said, I just got used to watching the shutter speeds and aperture in the viewfinder. We are all different.
 
oftheherd said:
I find that interesting that you would prefer shutter priority with long lenses. I learned quickly to watch the led shutter speeds displayed in the 901's viewfinder and open or close the aperture when shutter speed was important. There is nothing wrong with how you do it, it just, I guess, goes with you preference for shutter priority over aperture priority, and for me the way I do it based on my aperture priority preference.

I have programmed exposure on my FX103 and my 167mt. I just never liked that because I wouldn't know what my aperture and shutter speed was that way. I know its advantage for fast shooting, but as I said, I just got used to watching the shutter speeds and aperture in the viewfinder. We are all different.
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I only use shutter priority with long lenses to prevent camera shake and also because the long the lens the more attention you have to pay to focusing, I think Canon "suggested" that use of shutter priority with the A-1 first because besides this use shutter priority is not very useful, for static shots aperture priority gives you control of DOF and thats more important. Plus with aperture priority with long lenses I risk to shoot with a too long time and I get camera shake, in shutter priority the worst thing that can happened is to get the pic underexposed.

For instance I shot this one:

wlqcdf.jpg


With the Fujica in shutter priority at 1/30s because I wanted to ibtain the blur and I didn't have a tripod, and at the same time I needed to concentrate on the fraction of time I would have seen the carousel without people. I hoped to have captured the idea...

This shot instead was taken in aperture priority with my Praktica and the Flektogon 20 mm:

mcas1i.jpg


As you see it's blurred because the time was too long and the train was starting to move in that moment (and I wanted to caugh that moment), in order to get the very long subject in focus I selected something like f11 to have everything 1 mt far away from me in focus but I didn't realise the train was already moving too fast and I got the subject not perfectly in focus nevertheless, probably if my Praktica had shutter priority this pic would have been better.
 
CMur12 said:
When I shoot 135, I really like my Minolta SR-T SLRs, which aren't considered professional in the strictest sense, though professionals did use them.
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I'll second this, I really enjoy my SRT's as well. In fact I'm just as happy with these (have six or seven of them) as I was with my Leicas and rangefinder Canons. Since I started out with these (thirty years ago), it's like coming full circle. I'm completely totally comfortable with them and they always deliver the goods. And the Rokkor lenses are second to none.

I do have a couple of "pro" motorized Minolta SR-M's, but that is another story :cool:
 
This is going to be a change-up for the month of July. Before, I was thinking of my F6 and FM3a but that matches MF with AF. Or I could match the F2 with the FM3a. And that is another story I will be working on later, not now.

As of today, I am changing my Nikon AF gear in the Hadley Pro bag to function seamlessly as my workflow foe shooting needs to be optimized with simplicity in mind. I now have the F6 (w/ 50/1.8 +Acros 100) paired with the F80 (28-105 +Legacy Pro 400). Both on Aperture control and as near similar controls as possible. Wow! This looks to be a perfect match with interchangeable lenses and compatibility.

So, will I prefer the Pro or the Amateur body in real world shooting this summer?

I have no idea but will report back.;)

Then, later on I will match the F2 with the FM3a. Looks like 2015 will be fun.
 
I tried the F3 and liked everything but the exposure display, which I hated. Same for the FA. I tried the F100, was OK with the 1/3 stop exposure display and liked everything but the custom settings, which made me afraid something would get inadvertently changed and I would lose my pictures. While all those came and went, I have hung onto my pair of FE2s, shooting my way across much of Missouri and Colorado for almost 30 years. Recently I added an FM3a, and I like it a lot.

The problem with +/- exposure displays is that exposure is analog, and should be represented by an analog meter needle, not a binary go/no go +/-. The next best thing is a 1/3 step LCD display, like in the F100, the N8080, or the like.
 
Rob-F said:
I tried the F3 and liked everything but the exposure display, which I hated. Same for the FA. I tried the F100, was OK with the 1/3 stop exposure display and liked everything but the custom settings, which made me afraid something would get inadvertently changed and I would lose my pictures. While all those came and went, I have hung onto my pair of FE2s, shooting my way across much of Missouri and Colorado for almost 30 years. Recently I added an FM3a, and I like it a lot.

The problem with +/- exposure displays is that exposure is analog, and should be represented by an analog meter needle, not a binary go/no go +/-. The next best thing is a 1/3 step LCD display, like in the F100, the N8080, or the like.
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Heh, heh..

Secretly I have the most fun with my FE2s and the FM3a is darned near perfect! The AF cameras may be my default in the future as eyesight may be an issue. Right now, I need them for actions sports with the grandkids.
 
I really don't worry about pro bodies or amateur bodies. I buy what I can afford and what makes shooting enjoyable. That's all really. My needs are simple ones and my photography is simple as well. Pro bodies also come with extra weight, which isn't always desirable. My favourite camera ever is probably my Nikon FE. With that camera and and a couple of lenses I can do just about everything I need.
 
It depends. If I'm shooting large prime lenses - 300 2.8, 200 2.0, etc. - then the pro level bodies provide better balance. It's tough to balance an FM2n and a 300 2.8. The F3 or F2 with a motor drive works better. As to rangefinders, it doesn't matter to me whether it's a Bessa, a Zeiss, or a Leica.
 
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