Printers...HP 9180B Vs. Epson 3800

Adding to Nico's wants(/woes).

Have we any recommendations for colour calibration tools?

Which one are you using Robert?
 
As an owner of a B9180, I will chime in here to report that the output quality (color and especially BW!) is simply stunning. I would highly recommend getting the 3 year next day exchange, extended service plan. Extremely cheap insurance.
 
I'm not really sure that I can make a meaningful comment on ink usage. I don't really have anything to compare it to, my previous one was a six color (dye) Epson (870). The cartridges are huge by comparison (27ml). So far, it does not seem to be very thirsty. One big bonus is the built-in network interface.
 
Even though I knew of the impending introduction of HP's B9180 at the time, I wound up buying this instead, and have been thrilled by the print quality, particularly b/w. The big deal here was the printer's three black inks (all used at once in Greyscale mode) and lack of artifacts once the prints are dry. And, when I say "no artifacts", I mean virtually none, under most any kind of lighting. The funny thing is that I initially bought this printer as an "interim" printer to hold me over until I had the bucks, and space, for an Epson 4800 or the like. Still have the 8750, with no complaints so far, and stable, great-looking prints.

Edit: judging from the feedback regarding this printer (on HP's site), I'd say it has something of a following, even though it's currently not getting as much press as the B9180. I have a review there as well, under "When You'd Rather Switch Than Fight."


- Barrett
 
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Does the HP rely on the swellable HP papers? My HP designjet only produces archival prints if I buy their HP premium plus paper as well. The technology was designed to combine the ink and paper in combination. If I use other papers they fade rather quickly. The good thing about the Epsons is that you can use lots of different papers, not just Epson's.

Another thing to bear in mind.
 
mrtoml said:
Does the HP rely on the swellable HP papers? My HP designjet only produces archival prints if I buy their HP premium plus paper as well. The technology was designed to combine the ink and paper in combination. If I use other papers they fade rather quickly. The good thing about the Epsons is that you can use lots of different papers, not just Epson's.

Another thing to bear in mind.
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No, you must avoid swellable papers at all costs. The HP paper of choice is the HP Advanced, which has a Wilhem rating of > 200 years. This is the paper supplied for the calibration setup.
 
You should know nico, I am an artist not an account man and I cannot make comments about inks consumption and related cost :D
just kidding, I have no idea also because I m still in the learning curve and did not tried yet an A3 print. I just bought today a A3 box of Harman baryta paper 315 g and still suffering !!! I' ll be very carefull before, when and after printing on it !
My additional suggestion is because printer are special item, in some cases delicated, if possible buy it in a specialized dealer who can if necessary give you tech assistence and not in a general multipurpose electronic shop. But you have some friends who are electronic guru...
ciao, rob
 
plummerl said:
No, you must avoid swellable papers at all costs. The HP paper of choice is the HP Advanced, which has a Wilhem rating of > 200 years. This is the paper supplied for the calibration setup.
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To clarify things a bit: the HP 8750, which I use, uses HP's Vivera archival dye-based inks, and works best with HP's own Premium/Premium Plus (swellable) paper. Most any swellable paper from anyone else can be used, but the combination of these HP papers and inks gets the nod in terms of an official archival rating (also rated by Wilhelm, BTW: >100 years under glass/>200 years for dark storage), though I'm certain other papers are likely just as stable.

The HP B9180, on the other hand, Uses HP's Vivera pigment inks, making it another animal altogether. You'll want to be using anything but a swellable paper. Use HP's Advanced paper, or various other papers of the sort (Hahnemühle Silver Rag being the hot ticket for several people I know).

The paper situation for the 8750 is somewhat more limited; on the other hand, I happen to like the way HP's Premium and Premium Plus papers perform overall, as well as their rated stability.

On ink consumption: the general rule is that printers with relatively large ink tanks are more economical to operate than printers with either small(ish) individual carts of multi-color carts. The B9180 has 8 fairly large ink tanks, with an arrangement not dissimilar to the aftermarket CIS/CFS systems made for printers with small ink carts. This is the first 13" carriage printer designed with such a system. My 8750, by contrast, uses smaller multi-ink carts, but one upside with mine is that ther are 9 inks, including a third black/grey ink, compared to the B9180's two black/grey inks.


- Barrett
 
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robert blu said:
You should know nico, I am an artist not an account man and I cannot make comments about inks consumption and related cost :D
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Oops, perdono maestro ;)!


robert blu said:
My additional suggestion is because printer are special item, in some cases delicated, if possible buy it in a specialized dealer who can if necessary give you tech assistence and not in a general multipurpose electronic shop. But you have some friends who are electronic guru...
ciao, rob
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I agree with you, I'd like to avoid great malls so yesterday I went to "Fotoamatore" here in Lucca but they don't sell Hp, just Epson and Canon ...


@Amateriat and Larry may you please help me to understand what a "swellable" paper. :confused: :eek: thanks a lot ...
 
nico said:
@Amateriat and Larry may you please help me to understand what a "swellable" paper. :confused: :eek: thanks a lot ...
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I'll try my best. :)

"Swellable" papers (generally polymers) actually absorb the ink as it is sprayed on by the printer. This works ideally with dye-based inks, whose solution is generally finer than pigment-based inks.

Non-swellable papers, with surfaces and coatings of various kinds (ceramic, clay, baryta, etc.) are designed for inks that coat the surface, but don't penetrate. This tends to be ideal for pigment-based inks.

Dye inks can be used on non-swellable papers, but archival quality is, at best, only fair. Pigment inks generally work badly on swellable papers, tending to run/smear.

There are pros and cons to both approaches, and the above is the most brutally simplistic of descriptions, but I hope it gives you a decent overview


- Barrett
 
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In my view, inkjet paper quality should be good then only prints look professional.I can assure you that i have got one site which offers good quality photo papers for printing.I just tried the product and i should say that i am quite satisfied with the result.When you print a photo on a high quality inkjet paper your work will really look great, i have been using the product from freephotopaper for quite sometime now and it prints beautiful on both the gloss and satin and is less than half the cost of OEM papers.
 
Wonder if ink costs have changed on the HP

Wonder if ink costs have changed on the HP

I bought a 9180 right after they came out. I moved up from an Epson R2200, and I have a close friend using the Epson R2400.... all three pigment inks. For my purposes, mostly color, the 9180 and the R2400 were close in quality.

but my decision to sell the 9180 was not based on any quality evaluation. Two things bothered me on the HP.

Ink cost... the HP had about 50% more ink per cartridge, but at the time the only cartridges were OEM at three times the price of the Epson. I can get Epson cartridges for under $10 OEM, and the lowest price I could find on the HP9180 was $33. Perhaps this has changed.

However, one other thing about the HP bothered me. It has a constant monitoring system on the ink supply, which runs a cleaning cycle (or something similar). I deduce that means the printer takes it upon itself to make sure the jets don't clog. I suspect this means there is a random cycle which uses or flushes some of my very expensive ink.

Now, my understanding is that the 3800 is much better on ink than the R2400 because of larger cartridges.

It's very difficult to make apples to apples comparisons on cost of operation, but I decided to go to the R2400 like my friend has. If I printed more than I do, I would probably look at the 3800 or an external ink supply system.

So, in summary, perhaps some of the posters here can clarify HP 9180 ink costs as the current market, and clear up whether my thoughts about the ink monitoring are faulty, or whether that process can be turned off, and what problems may occur if the system is not cleaning itself occasionally.

My Epson experience is that I (nor my friend) have any clogging issues, and I sometimes do not print for a week or more.
 
For hp9180B, in italy (at least in the city where I live):
black ink and light gray cartridge = EUR 26.00 + 20 % taxes each. In a shop which gives also tech service in case, I guess maybe could be slightly cheaper somewhere else.
Noy yet changed colours, I do not know if same price.
just for your infos.
rob
 
kuzano said:
and the lowest price I could find on the HP9180 was $33. Perhaps this has changed.
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I've had the 9180 for almost a year now and $30-ish is about what it always has been. You see them $27-ish on line, but shipping makes up for that.

They don't require replacement very often, fortunately. I still haven't gone through a complete set yet.

I haven't really investigated third-party inks yet.

which runs a cleaning cycle (or something similar). I deduce that means the printer takes it upon itself to make sure the jets don't clog. I suspect this means there is a random cycle which uses or flushes some of my very expensive ink.
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I've gone a few weeks at times without any printing, and I can't see any visible lowering of the ink levels due to this.

Every evening, the time seems to vary a bit, it clicks and jukes around for a while, maybe a minute at the longest.

The prints from this printer are awesome, though! :)
 
kuzano said:
However, one other thing about the HP bothered me. It has a constant monitoring system on the ink supply, which runs a cleaning cycle (or something similar). I deduce that means the printer takes it upon itself to make sure the jets don't clog. I suspect this means there is a random cycle which uses or flushes some of my very expensive ink.
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If you leave the B9180 powered on (as HP recommends) it does a cycle every 24 hours to keep the nozzles from clogging. As near as I can tell, though, this cycle uses little if any ink.

About three weeks ago I ran a big batch of prints which ran two of the tanks down to the last possible mark before "empty." Since then I haven't printed anything, but the printer has been doing its cycle every 24 hours. The two ink tanks still show the same level they did three weeks ago.

I'm sure this process does use a certain tiny amount of ink, but keep in mind that if you try to print with clogged nozzles you will waste both ink (on a cleaning cycle) and paper (on a spoiled print.) So, I think HP's approach is a good one. If you want to avoid the cleaning cycle and are willing to accept the risk of clogs, you can simply power off the printer between uses.
 
Beside the cleaning leaving the 9180B powered gives some electricity to the inks which are electrostic charged. This prevent possible phenomenon like settlement in the cartridge without needs to have very thick inks. Having lower viscosity inks there is less risk to clog nozzles.
Explanation is a little primitive but my english is not good enough to explainwith more details, hope you understand.
 
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