Privacy and Respect in our Photos

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jbf said:
you do have the same right to be wrong, but not the right to name calling. in your 'street clothes', yes. but not in 'uniform'.
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Joe's been the target of some of Jon's generalised scorn for the gear enthusiasts here fairly frequently.

The genie has to come out of the bottle occasionally! 😛
 
Well to be honest I do see a problem; a moderator probably has more responsibility for the good climate in the forum, even when posting his personal opinion.

Maybe one should refrain from making this kind of comment ex cathedra, maybe through a second user account or something.

To return to the topic, I think there is a general credibility problem when on the other hand we praise RF cameras for their unobtrusiveness, complain about how we get noticed because our camera shutters are too loud (or boast about how our stealthy shutters sound makes us unnoticeable) etc., and when on the other hand we complain about how a photographer should behave more manly, confront others instead of posting about them on the Internet, etc.

Guys, what is the point of having an unobtrusive camera again? Sure, this raises lots of ethical questions about street photography in general, but these have, as pointed out, been discussed and are being discussed elsewhere on RFF already. This thread as I understand it is about something completely different.
 
I've read the original post over a couple of times and I still can't figure out how the tourists exhibited bad manners.
Is it bad manners to travel to a country and not know the language?
Is it bad manners to ask after someone who you have heard of and may speak the same language as you?
Is it bad manners to walk into a local cafe wearing shorts?
Is it bad manners to not have a tan?
I do my best to learn a few words or phrases of the country I intend to visit but it's not always easy. I found Portuguese to be very difficult, and I'm sure during my visits to Portugal and Brazil I may have come across as ignorant and foolish when trying to communicate, but no rudeness was intended.
When I used to work on cruise ships we would all have a laugh at the stupid fat tourists blustering about in their loud clothes with their loud voices, but in retrospect they weren't bad people. They didn't have the benefit of our experience in these exotic places, the time to learn particular customs and words that are more acceptable than others.
Sometimes you find yourself in a strange place for a short period of time. You get confused, maybe a little stressed and frustrated. You want to do and see everything possible, and capture those memories as best you can. Maybe a DSLR with a big zoom is the most convenient choice.
I think those tourists deserve a bit of a break.
 
I think the purpose of the post was for Jon to show how amazingly popular he is - people come from far and wide to try to meet him and replicate his amazing photos of the inside of a bar stocked with crusty regulars. If only we could be as amazingly popular as Jon.
 
photogdave said:
I've read the original post over a couple of times and I still can't figure out how the tourists exhibited bad manners.
Is it bad manners to travel to a country and not know the language?
Is it bad manners to ask after someone who you have heard of and may speak the same language as you?
Is it bad manners to walk into a local cafe wearing shorts?
Is it bad manners to not have a tan?
I do my best to learn a few words or phrases of the country I intend to visit but it's not always easy. I found Portuguese to be very difficult, and I'm sure during my visits to Portugal and Brazil I may have come across as ignorant and foolish when trying to communicate, but no rudeness was intended.
When I used to work on cruise ships we would all have a laugh at the stupid fat tourists blustering about in their loud clothes with their loud voices, but in retrospect they weren't bad people. They didn't have the benefit of our experience in these exotic places, the time to learn particular customs and words that are more acceptable than others.
Sometimes you find yourself in a strange place for a short period of time. You get confused, maybe a little stressed and frustrated. You want to do and see everything possible, and capture those memories as best you can. Maybe a DSLR with a big zoom is the most convenient choice.
I think those tourists deserve a bit of a break.
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I don't know...I've about had it with you Canandians coming down here and not speaking anything other than Canadian. Learn the language if you want to visit a country...that's what I say.
 
I live in NYC. Who has manners???

Seriously, visitors here rarely acknowledge that people actually do call this place home. Why do those who visit here, feel it necessary to behave in a way that they never would behave at home? The one saving grace - you behave badly here, it'll come back to you in *****s. Quickly!
 
I think it's best to give people the benefit of the doubt, and engage them if they engage you. Especially if they think your home turf is worth visiting. If they turn out to be boors, snub away. But some of us camera-toting fat white Americans are OK.

Also, FWIW, shooting strangers on the street ≠ shooting strangers in a bar.
 
If you truly believe that these tourists travelled to your home turf expressly to look you up, perhaps you should have taken the opportunity to educate and help them acclimate to the local culture. Instead, treating them as objects of derision and scorn based upon your visual assessment only shows arrogance and contempt.
 
kbg32 said:
I live in NYC. Who has manners???
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I end up talking to strangers in New York more readily than anywhere else on earth, though!

When my wife and I were there a few weeks ago, we were in midtown waiting at a light to cross the street, and on the other side this otherwise perfectly composed-looking businesswoman suddenly, right out in the open, reached down, grabbed her pantyhose through her skirt, and hiked 'em up, doing this crazy little goosestep. Immediately a woman standing next to us turned to us and said, "Oh my GAWD, did you SEE dat?" I said, "The terrible thing is, I have a camera in my hand and didn't get the shot." "Oh, dat's TRAGIC!" 😱
 
Hmm. I have some sympathy for Jon in my new role as a Vermonter. Well, I have been here a little while, but not nearly enough to be called a "Vermonter" by locals. Jon's experience reminds me though, that Alexander Solzhenitsyn moved to a small town in my adopted state. He achieved some fame after the Gulag Archipelago was published, but remained reclusive -- no desire for a spread in Time magazine had he. When locals in the small town he lived in were asked whether they knew his whereabouts/address, they would pause a moment and say, "ahh, nope." I always thought that there was something admirable in that, no matter how well intentioned the inquisitor. Jon has an on-line presence. If these folks were so all fired-up to meet him, they could have tried to establish a rapport through the available media, rather than dropping in out of the blue and expecting to be received with open arms. I'm just saying. I am not sure I would read photographic work posted on the Internet as an invitation for an unannounced visit. Seems like there is an opportunity for some flexibility on all sides here; what folks make of that opportunity will determine at least one life path.

Ben Marks
 
Richard Jenkinson said:
American and English tourists treat rural village folk here like zoo animals.

I've had them sat at the table next to mine openly criticizing "us":
"That one looks funny wearing his beret like that, shoot him. Look at those country bumpkins over there with mud on their boots, shoot them".

No respect at all.🙁
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Some people confuse respect with "restraint of liberty". This is where manners come in. (meaning, they seem to lack respect because they lack manners) And understanding cultural differences. It is all a can of tangled spring-loaded worms.

I also agree that being loud in public just underlines this cultural shock.
 
Richard Jenkinson said:
Situations such as Jon describes happens to me also, far too often.
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People come from overseas to try to find you and recreate your work? Wow. I had no idea the two of you were so famous.

Trying to "educate" them does not work, I've tried on numerous occasions.
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Yeah, Stalin tried too.

American and English tourists treat rural village folk here like zoo animals.
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They throw peanuts at you and try to get you to move?

I've had them sat at the table next to mine openly criticizing "us":
"That one looks funny wearing his beret like that, shoot him. Look at those country bumpkins over there with mud on their boots, shoot them".
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I haven't heard anyone use the word 'bumpkin' since the 1960's. Are you sure they're Americans? I'll bet they're Swiss.

No respect at all.🙁
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You want respect, you gotta dance, monkey boy.
 
I was in the 4 train in Manhattan a few days ago, late at night.

A malodorous woman got up from her seat, dropped her dress, and deposited a huge steaming defecation in the middle of the floor of the subway car, just as casually as if she were in a bathroom. She was even reading a newspaper and picking her nose.

Nobody gawked, but they all quickly moved to the other side of the car, and went into another part of the train at the next station. The smell was overbearing.

I feel this display reflected a terrible lack of manners. Unfortunately, I was not equipped with a camera, the Nikon D700 would have been up to the job.
 
bmattock said:
I haven't heard anyone use the word 'bumpkin' since the 1960's. Are you sure they're Americans? I'll bet they're Swiss.
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Perhaps they don't use that word in front of you so as to avoid hurting your feelings.

Personally, I like rube, hick, and doofus.

HEY RUBE!
 
Actually, rereading Jon's post, I have to ask why you didn't introduce yourself to these people who were looking for you? I mean, they came halfway around the world and wanted to meet you, right? And you were standing right there? And it doesn't sound like they were being rude--they just looked out of place.

I mean, I know tourists can be quite crass and disrespectful at times. But why snub these particular people? Perhaps they were fellow RFFers wanting to say hi and geek out about cameras for a few minutes.
 
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