Problem Establishing Zone Personal EI - Rollei IR 400s

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gdi

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I finally got setup to try to take a more systematic/scientific approach to my film exposure and developing by obtaining a convenient way to measure negative density. (Thanks to Chris Crawford's advice I hunted up a Gossen Ultra Pro meter and fiber optic probe that can measure density directly.)

I have a lot of Rollei IR 400 film and decided to use it as a normal film as well as IR so I have been working with that. The problem is that when I take my first set of test exposures to zero in on the proper film speed for my process I get nothing but blank frames. I tryed starting with teh box speed of 400 and then 200 and in both cases got zip. For 400 I end up with a metered speed @ F4 of 1/30 - then shot 4 frames between F11 and F16. When I shot the next set of exposure to tune developing, I do get usable frames for those between F4 and F2.8.

In this situation, my instinct is to just drop the ISO down to something very low like 50 or 25 and see what happens? Though it seems a bit drastic for a 400 box speed film, maybe this is a problem with the IR film? Should I try my first EI testing on a more traditional film?

Any advice is appreciated!!
 
not sure why you got those strange results. I use an EI of 160 for the rollei IR/retro400s/superpan 200 for normal photography and then when i use my 720 filter I use either 12 or 6 depending on how high the contrast of the scene is.

Im sure someone who knows this film better will chime in.

john
 
I wouldn't bother doing Zone System tests with IR film, or using it as a regular film. I haven't tried the Rollei film, but I bet it is similar to the Kodak High Speed Infrared Film I used a lot of in college.

The Kodak IR film had a strange spectral sensitivity. It was sensitive to blue light, and IR light, and that was it. Using the red filter cut most of the blue light to maximize the IR effect.

It would be hard to use such a film for the Zone system because it is not sensitive to most colors. Also, the stuff was grainy and not very sharp. Neat for the IR effect, crappy for normal photography. Its also expensive, best to use normal film for regular work. Cheaper, easier to use, and higher image quality.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Are you using an IR filter?

Cheers,

R.
Click to expand...
Great question, Roger! I did not have an IR filter installed. Though I admit that with my first test, I grabbed a 50mm lens that I had accidentally left an IR CUT filter on (from my M8 days) - likely not a great idea for testing the film fr general use.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
I wouldn't bother doing Zone System tests with IR film, or using it as a regular film. I haven't tried the Rollei film, but I bet it is similar to the Kodak High Speed Infrared Film I used a lot of in college.

The Kodak IR film had a strange spectral sensitivity. It was sensitive to blue light, and IR light, and that was it. Using the red filter cut most of the blue light to maximize the IR effect.

It would be hard to use such a film for the Zone system because it is not sensitive to most colors. Also, the stuff was grainy and not very sharp. Neat for the IR effect, crappy for normal photography. Its also expensive, best to use normal film for regular work. Cheaper, easier to use, and higher image quality.
Click to expand...

I think you are right that the odd sensitivity may throw things off, even though the Rollie only reaches extended red. But actually the film is very sharp and should work well for general photography - it is totally different from HIE (unfortunately!)
 
gdi said:
Great question, Roger! I did not have an IR filter installed. Though I admit that with my first test, I grabbed a 50mm lens that I had accidentally left an IR CUT filter on (from my M8 days) - likely not a great idea for testing the film fr general use.
Click to expand...

The IR speed of Rollei is about 12 ISO or less, so a IR blocking filter will contribute a mere 1/32 stop to the exposure - its visible light transparency probably accounts for more.

Sure you did not leave the lens cap on as well? Is the developed film edge numbered, or completely blank? If the latter, it is no matter of the camera and exposure, but of the film or processing...
 
I used this same film with my Gl690 and an IR 720 filter . They were exposed at ISO 12 and every frame was well exposed and quite sharp . However the IR glow was lacking and it was suggested to try ISO 6 to improve upon this . It hasn't been bright enough here of late to try this slow an exposure . Peter
 
This is an example with the film at ISO 12 and with the IR 720 filter . Peter

med_U41336I1489358011.SEQ.0.jpg
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
I wouldn't bother doing Zone System tests with IR film, or using it as a regular film. I haven't tried the Rollei film, but I bet it is similar to the Kodak High Speed Infrared Film I used a lot of in college.

The Kodak IR film had a strange spectral sensitivity. It was sensitive to blue light, and IR light, and that was it. Using the red filter cut most of the blue light to maximize the IR effect. . . .
Click to expand...
Dear Chris,

No. This is a pan film with extended red sensitivity, quite unlike High Speed Infrared. No "green gap".

Cheers,

R.
 
I have shot a lot of Rollei IR400 film, and found it to be great for general shooting and infrared use. I also like how it develops flat, and not curly like other BW films.

For normal use I just shoot it at the box speed, for IR use, I use a Hoya 720 filter and shoot at ISO 12. You get better IR effect when shooting in the summer during the middle of the day.

ToganeParkinfrafred004.jpg


ToganeParkinfrafred023.jpg


The only real problem I have when trying to make IR images is finding subjects which don't move, as exposure times can be long. Here in Japan it is always a bit windy on summer days, and it is hard to catch the foliage without a little blurring.
 
^ It appears that you've definitely got that IR glow that I was seeking . I was using the same filter as you , same ISO and took my pictures last summer around noon to early afternoon . I also took some pics of front yard foliage and I didn't get "The Glow" you captured .
 
gdi said:
I finally got setup to try to take a more systematic/scientific approach to my film exposure and developing by obtaining a convenient way to measure negative density. ..................
maybe this is a problem with the IR film? Should I try my first EI testing on a more traditional film?
Click to expand...

You will never be able to find an EI that you can dial into a meter that measures visible light that will give you consistent exposures using predominantly only the IR spectrum on a film sensitive to such. This is because the IR part of the spectrum differs widely from what a traditional light meter measures.

I have never used your film but did shoot at lot of Kodak HEI both in 35mm and 70mm respooled as 120. I did a lot of tests but got widely varying EIs. I finally realized the correct EI was usually the one that yielded f8 @ 1/250th using a 25A filter. So I quit using the visible light meter entirely and just dialed in f8 @ 1/250th. Result was consistent exposures. I did learn to tweak up or down a stop depending on subject luminance.

Learned habits like using a traditional light meter die hard. But I suggest you set your meter aside and determine the f stop and shutter speed that yields good exposures, then stick with that.
 
Just to be clear, I am not trying to get an EI for using this film with an IR filter for IR effects. Just to use it for normal photography with no filter.

When using it for IR effects I use an R72 and about iso 6. It is nothing like HIE which I always shot at F8 1/250 with a red filter (like Bob).
 
gdi said:
Just to be clear, I am not trying to get an EI for using this film with an IR filter for IR effects. Just to use it for normal photography with no filter.

When using it for IR effects I use an R72 and about iso 6. It is nothing like HIE which I always shot at F8 1/250 with a red filter (like Bob).
Click to expand...


Even using it unfiltered, like a normal film, will be hard simply because of the strange spectral sensitivity. It probably has no sensitivity to any color of visible light except blue and red.
 
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