g812
Member
I am about to receive my first RF (Kiev 4... the one with the little bouncy needle thing on it).
I am wanting to use it for black and white film...
From all the chatter I have seen on here, it would seem that most if not all, develop their own film.
For me, I do not have the space, or equipment to do so.
Would it be better to send the film to a lab, and have them process the negatives only, then scan them at home, (if scan at home, a pointer for scanner would be nice) or just have them print the pictures too (glossy or mat) ?
And by not developing my own, am I really missing out on a lot?
Thanks.
I am wanting to use it for black and white film...
From all the chatter I have seen on here, it would seem that most if not all, develop their own film.
For me, I do not have the space, or equipment to do so.
Would it be better to send the film to a lab, and have them process the negatives only, then scan them at home, (if scan at home, a pointer for scanner would be nice) or just have them print the pictures too (glossy or mat) ?
And by not developing my own, am I really missing out on a lot?
Thanks.
DHK
-
I had to quit my only local lab because they don’t maintain their equipment for one.
That said, labs should be trustworthy for processing. I used to request my negatives uncut. I then would scan at home on an epson 550. If you want settings I will share. I’m not the best I’m sure but I’m happy with results. Always looking for pointers.
I develop at home for these reasons: don’t have to travel to lab, cost is much lower, I’m in control and all mistakes are my own. But if I had it my way a lab would process for me.
Scanning I wouldn’t not depend on a lab, I’m far too picky with settings etc.
That said, labs should be trustworthy for processing. I used to request my negatives uncut. I then would scan at home on an epson 550. If you want settings I will share. I’m not the best I’m sure but I’m happy with results. Always looking for pointers.
I develop at home for these reasons: don’t have to travel to lab, cost is much lower, I’m in control and all mistakes are my own. But if I had it my way a lab would process for me.
Scanning I wouldn’t not depend on a lab, I’m far too picky with settings etc.
g812
Member
Thanks. 
Not sure which part of the world you are in, but for me, I am in UK, there seems to be some places left that'll develop negatives, and do prints at an extra cost.
Looks like I'll be in the market for a neg scanner then
At least that way, I can pick and choose which ones I want in print, instead of having a whole bunch of nonsense
Not sure which part of the world you are in, but for me, I am in UK, there seems to be some places left that'll develop negatives, and do prints at an extra cost.
Looks like I'll be in the market for a neg scanner then
At least that way, I can pick and choose which ones I want in print, instead of having a whole bunch of nonsense
DHK
-
Thanks.
Not sure which part of the world you are in, but for me, I am in UK, there seems to be some places left that'll develop negatives, and do prints at an extra cost.
Looks like I'll be in the market for a neg scanner then
At least that way, I can pick and choose which ones I want in print, instead of having a whole bunch of nonsense
I’m in the states. I also use an Epson printer so consider if you want to go down that rabbit hole.
Papercut
Well-known
The space needed to do daylight processing of film is minimal -- if you have a bathroom, a small box with the stuff needed is all the "space" required. Using a changing bag makes a true "darkroom" unnecessary, so it all can be done in any room (preferably with access to running water). The equipment list is also not that long either.
Whether or not it's worth it depends on your personal calculus. For many it is worth it, either for cost reasons (once the modest equipment is purchased the chemicals make developing b/w film very economical) or for quality reasons (development can really impact the quality of the negatives in all sorts of ways). I, for one, would never go back to a lab for b/w for both those reasons.
DHK
-
Agreed Kevin. With color c41 as well. It’s actually easier than bw I find. I’d guesstimate if you invest $150 you will be set for developing at home.
It’s a bit boring to process but patience is a virtue.
It’s a bit boring to process but patience is a virtue.
g812
Member
Ok, you have me curious...
List of goods needed?
and...
a how to guide too ?
please,
Thanks
List of goods needed?
and...
a how to guide too ?
please,
Thanks
DHK
-
Ok I’ll start
I recommend a 2 reel steel tank, two steel reels. Get a good thermometer that has single degrees or so.
For bw I use d76, Photographers forumulary stop bath, Kodak fixer, Kodak photoflo. (1 gallon each)
Color I use unicolor kit (1litre)
I was lucky and was given a film drying cabinet but I used to dry in the basement or bathroom no problem.
I use a dark room to load film so I can’t comment on changing bags but I’d be willing to try.
Once you load the film everything can be done in light so you could potentially use a kitchen sink or whatever. As long as you can control the temp.
Edit: also one funnel and three graduated containers that go up to 32 oz or so.
Also four gallon containers for the chemicals. I used to use milk jugs but now bought the brown photography jugs.
I recommend a 2 reel steel tank, two steel reels. Get a good thermometer that has single degrees or so.
For bw I use d76, Photographers forumulary stop bath, Kodak fixer, Kodak photoflo. (1 gallon each)
Color I use unicolor kit (1litre)
I was lucky and was given a film drying cabinet but I used to dry in the basement or bathroom no problem.
I use a dark room to load film so I can’t comment on changing bags but I’d be willing to try.
Once you load the film everything can be done in light so you could potentially use a kitchen sink or whatever. As long as you can control the temp.
Edit: also one funnel and three graduated containers that go up to 32 oz or so.
Also four gallon containers for the chemicals. I used to use milk jugs but now bought the brown photography jugs.
Steve M.
Veteran
The plastic Parerson tanks are excellent. I've been using them for 15 years and never had any problems with leaks or with loading the reels. You don't even need a bathroom, I and a lot of people develop using the kitchen sink. There's tons of tutorials on youtube. To make it easy, start with Tri-X and D76, a very forgiving combination. That way you won't need to nail the exposure or development to get great results. Total cost of the tank and reels, fixer, developer and photo flo to avoid drying marks on your negs would be well under &100. No need for a drying room, just turn on the shower in your bathroom for 5 minutes, then hang your negs to dry in there w/ the door closed.
You'll also need some gradients, a funnel, an accurate thermometer ((Freestyle photo has some good glass ones for $4 I believe), and some plastic jugs to store chemicals. You can use empty glass jelly jars for gradients, just mark off what you need for your chemicals on the bottles with a marker.
But you probably want to see some images now. I believe Precision Camera is one of the sponsors here, and they offer reliable film processing and will give you scans of your negs all for a low price.
You'll also need some gradients, a funnel, an accurate thermometer ((Freestyle photo has some good glass ones for $4 I believe), and some plastic jugs to store chemicals. You can use empty glass jelly jars for gradients, just mark off what you need for your chemicals on the bottles with a marker.
But you probably want to see some images now. I believe Precision Camera is one of the sponsors here, and they offer reliable film processing and will give you scans of your negs all for a low price.
Scrambler
Well-known
I would go Paterson as well. Loads differently to the steel, its simple and quick. Should be stacks around. I started with a two reel but now use a three reel because I can do two 120 rolls or 6 5x4 sheets, the 5x4 with an insert.
Start with what you want and can get.
My standard film is a bulk-loaded Kodak red light camera film. Got a lot of that cheap. I use Ilford ID-11. You can plan to use film for learning rather than starting with your best friend's wedding. Any black and white is pretty forgiving.
The Massive Dev Chart is an assistance with times.
Hanging: I tend to use wire coat hangers with clips hanging off them. My Dad used bulldog clips with leather glued to where they hit the film. Pegs would probably do but you need to have something with some weight at the bottom. There are film holding clips but start with what you have.
Have a look at caffenol options. The only "must have" is fixer.
My prefered storage container for ID-11 is a wine-type bladder. I buy water in a "cask" and mix in that. Then you seal it free of air. No issues with oxygen exposure and pretty much light-free as well.
Have fun
g812
Member
Thanks for the replies...
I was doing a little digging this morning, found something called Jobo, and another on kickstarter called Lab-box, both look very good, however, i'd rather start of a little cheeper
Then I found those Paterson tanks... (AP the same?)
Would i still need to spool the film in a bag though?
I was doing a little digging this morning, found something called Jobo, and another on kickstarter called Lab-box, both look very good, however, i'd rather start of a little cheeper
Then I found those Paterson tanks... (AP the same?)
Would i still need to spool the film in a bag though?
Russell W. Barnes
Well-known
Spooling film in a bag is just a matter of pratice and doesn't take long to master. I use the Paterson tank and spirals so can't comment on other systems. For 35mm you can start outside the bag in daylight if you don't wind the film back into the canister fully in the first place. Just stop rewinding once you feel the rewind knob go stiff then loose again before removing it. Don't know how a Kiev rewind knob feels, mind, but I don't think it'll be too different to a Pentax MX or a Praktica MTL3 or an Olympus Trip 35 (the three cameras I use with manual rewind). Cut the leader and withdraw just sufficient film to get past the balls on the spool, then into the bag with it, withdrawing a foot or so at a time in the dark. Trouble with this method is you stand the chance of picking up grit on the canister light seals as you draw the film out (although this hasn't happened with me).
I don't do this now as I prefer to cut the leader square once withdrawn from the camera then wind the film back completely into the canister, into the bag with it and remove the canister top with a bottle opener. I've found the continuous stopping and starting 35mm when spooling causes it to stick sometimes, whereas winding from a completely loose spool as a 'one-er' is easier. Try not to let the film hang around on the changing bag surface too much as it can pick up minute bits of chaff, and ensure (IMPORTANT) that your reel is bone-dry before spooling.
I started with Ilford film and DD-X liquid but it's rather expensive. I now use ID-11 which is like sherbet and you mix two powders together to make either a litre or five litres which you then store as stock. It's pretty cheap. I sometimes use Adox Rodinal which lasts ages but you need to decide how you want your negs to look with regard to grain and settle on a developer that suits you. You could spend years doing 'test films and developer' combinations! It's like lots of other things: you're pleased with the results but it's in your mind that something better lurks around the corner...
I keep my mixed-up ID-11 (similar to Kodak D-76) in clean 250ml fruit-juice bottle from the supermarket, in a plastic storage box in the dark below stairs. Fixer and stop-bath (water will do instead of stop-bath) in amber 300ml and 500ml bottles and is used again. I por them into jugs when I'm done with the process, thence back into the amber glass bottles. I use four 250ml bottles for developer as it suits my requirements and I only use what I need without letting air into the other bottles. I use boiled kettle water to mix developer and for a final wash with rinse-aid. Whether this makes any difference I don't know. Our tap-water is pretty soft and I've had good results just using that. All depends on where you live. Some folks buy bottled water or distilled water. I've yet to try this.
Hang film in the shower, as said, and run it beforehand to damp down dust. It'll hang with proprietary clips or a couple of clothes pegs top and bottom. I tie a piece of string around the bar on the shower then clip onto that.
Most of all, HAVE FUN!
I don't do this now as I prefer to cut the leader square once withdrawn from the camera then wind the film back completely into the canister, into the bag with it and remove the canister top with a bottle opener. I've found the continuous stopping and starting 35mm when spooling causes it to stick sometimes, whereas winding from a completely loose spool as a 'one-er' is easier. Try not to let the film hang around on the changing bag surface too much as it can pick up minute bits of chaff, and ensure (IMPORTANT) that your reel is bone-dry before spooling.
I started with Ilford film and DD-X liquid but it's rather expensive. I now use ID-11 which is like sherbet and you mix two powders together to make either a litre or five litres which you then store as stock. It's pretty cheap. I sometimes use Adox Rodinal which lasts ages but you need to decide how you want your negs to look with regard to grain and settle on a developer that suits you. You could spend years doing 'test films and developer' combinations! It's like lots of other things: you're pleased with the results but it's in your mind that something better lurks around the corner...
I keep my mixed-up ID-11 (similar to Kodak D-76) in clean 250ml fruit-juice bottle from the supermarket, in a plastic storage box in the dark below stairs. Fixer and stop-bath (water will do instead of stop-bath) in amber 300ml and 500ml bottles and is used again. I por them into jugs when I'm done with the process, thence back into the amber glass bottles. I use four 250ml bottles for developer as it suits my requirements and I only use what I need without letting air into the other bottles. I use boiled kettle water to mix developer and for a final wash with rinse-aid. Whether this makes any difference I don't know. Our tap-water is pretty soft and I've had good results just using that. All depends on where you live. Some folks buy bottled water or distilled water. I've yet to try this.
Hang film in the shower, as said, and run it beforehand to damp down dust. It'll hang with proprietary clips or a couple of clothes pegs top and bottom. I tie a piece of string around the bar on the shower then clip onto that.
Most of all, HAVE FUN!
CharlesDAMorgan
Veteran
I do all my own black and white developing at home in the UK. There are many good processors but I prefer to select my own developers and times and methods and with a decent scanner you will get better results.
All are loaded in a changing bag into Paterson tanks and developed in my kitchen. I use Rodinal or FX39 as they are single shot - mixing up 5 litres of developer is fine if you will be shooting a lot but I kept on finding I was chucking much away.
I did a day course on exposing, developing and printing with Keith Moss - I learned about techniques, the importance of only ever changing one factor at a time and about semi stand developing. Keith takes you through everything and you'll get an immense leg up in the process. Probably the best money I've ever spent on photography.
All are loaded in a changing bag into Paterson tanks and developed in my kitchen. I use Rodinal or FX39 as they are single shot - mixing up 5 litres of developer is fine if you will be shooting a lot but I kept on finding I was chucking much away.
I did a day course on exposing, developing and printing with Keith Moss - I learned about techniques, the importance of only ever changing one factor at a time and about semi stand developing. Keith takes you through everything and you'll get an immense leg up in the process. Probably the best money I've ever spent on photography.
HHPhoto
Well-known
Thanks for the replies...
I was doing a little digging this morning, found something called Jobo, and another on kickstarter called Lab-box, both look very good, however, i'd rather start of a little cheeper
Then I found those Paterson tanks... (AP the same?)
Would i still need to spool the film in a bag though?
The Jobo developing tanks are the best: Because
- they belong to an excellent system which can be extended by you if you go further later in your "career" (e.g. color processing with a Jobo processor)
- they have excellent build quality
- they are by far the most efficient and economical tanks as they need the lowest amount of chemistry (they are volume optimised); so you have the lowest processing costs with them.
For spooling film into the tank you can also use a changing bag if you don't have a darkroom as already mentioned.
Or - even more elegant and more comfortable - use a small changing tent like large format photographers use for loading their sheet film cassettes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xitWvTThYyg
For a beginner liquid developers with excellent keeping properties like Adox Rodinal or Adox FX-39 II are perfect to start with.
Developing your own films is easy, very cheap and a lot of fun!
Cheers, Jan
roscoetuff
Well-known
Ditto to HHPhoto's comments. Highly recommended for control and possibly cost. Not always the fastest... 'cause life may intervene (and it does!), but very satisfying. Your mistakes are your own, and the magic of producing a physical image is amazing.
For Patterson tanks, I recommend AP reels as the easiest to load. If you want to go with Jobo quality, the 2500 series reels have wider flanges and are easier to load as well.
FWIW, I spool film at night in a dark closet as MUCH easier than a bag as it gives you room to move and groove. I hang a cheap shower curtain across the closed door and put a piece of cardboard across the bottom of the door... just to assure no stray light breaks up the process. Bags are okay in a pinch, but they also retain humidity.
Highly recommend using one film and one developer to get the hang of things. Despite the hype, whichever one you choose will more often matter less than 5% of the time to the outcome of the resulting image. Don't get squirrelly and go down a rabbit hole here: I did, and am happier having backed out and simplified. FWIW, many now suggest you may find C41 process easier (fewer variables) than B&W to start... and I'd say there's a lot of merit in that suggestion. C41 just works. B&W will take tweaking.
Space is relative. I use a bathroom in the basement. Storage space for your equipment while it dries after clean-up is more of an issue than work space - though a nice space is better if you can find one.
Good luck!
For Patterson tanks, I recommend AP reels as the easiest to load. If you want to go with Jobo quality, the 2500 series reels have wider flanges and are easier to load as well.
FWIW, I spool film at night in a dark closet as MUCH easier than a bag as it gives you room to move and groove. I hang a cheap shower curtain across the closed door and put a piece of cardboard across the bottom of the door... just to assure no stray light breaks up the process. Bags are okay in a pinch, but they also retain humidity.
Highly recommend using one film and one developer to get the hang of things. Despite the hype, whichever one you choose will more often matter less than 5% of the time to the outcome of the resulting image. Don't get squirrelly and go down a rabbit hole here: I did, and am happier having backed out and simplified. FWIW, many now suggest you may find C41 process easier (fewer variables) than B&W to start... and I'd say there's a lot of merit in that suggestion. C41 just works. B&W will take tweaking.
Space is relative. I use a bathroom in the basement. Storage space for your equipment while it dries after clean-up is more of an issue than work space - though a nice space is better if you can find one.
Good luck!
Ted Striker
Well-known
Ted Striker
Well-known
olifaunt
Well-known
Some cities have community arts organizations with darkroom facilities available to the public. I live in a small city in the Northeast U.S. which has one. It is run as a nonprofit. I'm sure larger cities would have even more options. Might be worth checking out.
Scanning can be really tedious and a pain to do at home. Some labs will scan developed film for you at a nominal cost. (A lab close to here scans at a 25 c a frame. If you do contact sheets yourself, you can select only the frames you want scanned.)
Scanning can be really tedious and a pain to do at home. Some labs will scan developed film for you at a nominal cost. (A lab close to here scans at a 25 c a frame. If you do contact sheets yourself, you can select only the frames you want scanned.)
ultra8
Member
Self-development can be fun. Even more fun preparing the prints.
However, if you only need good scans, an external lab is a very good solution. At MeinFilmLab, we work with industrial scanners, the results are far better than a home user can ever make on a flatbed scanner.
if you have no time and no room, an external, good lab is a great choice. There are some very good labs in London. Otherwise, you can test us, we serve hundreds of customers from the UK.
olifaunt
Well-known
Home developing is straightforward. Assuming you are doing this for electronic use, it is the scanning that is tedious and an awful pain in the behind. Scanning is expensive to get done, but if you want quality scans, it might just be worth it taking or sending your film in.