Propaganda

Brian Sweeney said:
Propaganda has strong negative connotations, such as ignoring the truth and facts of a situation in order to sway people to the originators point of view. It is strongly biased.

Joseph Goebbels was a propagandist. My favorite scene in the play "Springtime for Hitler" in the "Producers", is Dick Shawn asking "Little Joe, Where's my Little Joe, I need my Little Joe". "How's the war going, Baby"... "Great! We're WINNING"
Click to expand...
After "the fall" in the Berlin bunker, Goebbels goes to Heaven.

Once arrived, after a long trip, he has to choose between two doors : A or B.

"What's behind each ?", he asks.

Then an angel comes and tolds him : "Door A is the Paradise. Quiet fields of always green grass, music, beautiful young ladies all around to take care of you, wine, grapefruits, and the like. And forever".

"Hmmm, well...... and what's about Door B ?".

"Door B is Hell. You will be roasted, tortured, and suffer some kind of pain you never encountered on Earth. And - it will never cease."

"Okay, Goebbels says, I choose Door A !".

"Not a problem, get in" says the angel, and he opens the Door A.

As soon as Door A has got closed and locked behind him, Goebbels is taken away by two small red devils and brought into the central oven of Hell.

Then he yells "What's up, I had chosen the Paradise ! I have been betrayed ! Please get me out of here, immediatly !".

Then The Devil himself comes in and says : "Ach, Dr Goebbels... Propaganda !".
 
bmattock said:
I don't want to fix the world - I didn't break it in the first place.
Click to expand...

Dear Bill,

A lot of people might disagree with that. Remember the old saying: all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Do you really believe that there is no merit in helping causes you believe in?

Cheers,

Roger
 
Good job you did. I think the photos here are like the one some PJ Director will want to publish in the newspaper as close as possible to the event happening. These are out of context some time in the near futures. Sometimes even tomorrow morning they will expire.

I can't say this is propaganda. It is some kind of report to the public to gain exposure and receive help by pushing the idea to max.

Propaganda is massive brainwash and must have feedback. The feedback is checked, rechecked and the source takes care to accomplish some target.

Tibetians are doing good work, but they have not tools to check the feedback and do something about to force solution to their idea.

They hope the world will help them. I hope this will work for them
 
Last edited:
And for much lighter propaganda, telling people to get off their bums and do something, here are 3 shots from the Spectacle de Danse by the local dance association -- all shot with a Noctilux on an M8, incidentally. I gave the Association a CD and permission to use the pics as they wanted.

Cheers,

R.
 

Attachments

  • Danseuse, spectacle.JPG
    Danseuse, spectacle.JPG
    38.7 KB · Views: 0
  • Spectacle 07 finale.jpg
    Spectacle 07 finale.jpg
    67.4 KB · Views: 0
  • Young danseuse.JPG
    Young danseuse.JPG
    39.4 KB · Views: 0
Interesting thread.

I personally regard the term "propaganda" as even-handed - "we" do it and "they" do it. "Propaganda" is, after all, if I remember my Latin correctly, "information to be propagated". The pejorative interpretation seems to spring, as has already been discussed, from wartime usage and has continued to this day. Another word that I can think of that has acquired negative connotations in a similar way is "ersatz" - in German it means "substitute" or "replacement" (please correct me if I am wrong) but in general usage it has taken on an "inferior" spin, to imply that the substitute is a poor one.

I work in sales, so propaganda is part and parcel of what I do. We refer to "themes" and "core messages", but what we are actually mean is "information we wish to propagate". That information will by definition be true - lying about your products or services is not an option these days - but it will be couched in terms that are either directly advantageous to us, or detrimental to our competitors. In other words, "spun".

I am paid to deliver a positive result for my employers; I am under no obligation to be even-handed, and nobody in their right mind would expect me to be. With journalists, however, I would contend that it is a different and more complex story. If I want a right-wing slant on what is going on I will pick up a copy of the Daily Telegraph. If I want a left-wing slant, I shall reach for a Guardian. If I want a (nominally) unbiased view I will read The Independent (If I want to know which celebrities look like their pets I will pick up a Daily Mail, but that is another story). Point is, I know the political stance of each of these titles. Impartiality is not a given. It is up to me to choose the slant I want to read, and source it accordingly. Where I have an issue is where some individual, title or broadcaster *purports* to be impartial, but is not. The "information" they provide is then - to me, at least, both suspect and of limited value. Is it propaganda? Of course. but a knife can be used to cut tomatoes or to murder a human being. It is not the fact that it is a knife, it is how it is used that makes the difference.

Regards,

Bill
 
Roger Hicks said:
Dear Bill,

A lot of people might disagree with that. Remember the old saying: all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Click to expand...

I agree, but I do not 'do nothing'. I just choose not to fix the world through my photography. I am not making statements - I am taking photos that (hopefully) please me.

The 'good things' which I do and have done in the world to make it better have nothing to do with photography, and many here on RFF have decided that they are not good things, but rather are evil things, so I will not discuss them (I've been asked not to by various members).

But they were my choice to 'make the world better' and I feel that my actions did so and do so.

Do you really believe that there is no merit in helping causes you believe in?
Click to expand...

Apres moi, le deluge. But I try to help anyway. Just not through my photography.

For what it might be worth, I did define a new school of American photography, for which I will be famous after my death. I suppose that's something.
 
Bill Mattocks: Quote.... “For what it might be worth, I did define a new school of American photography, for which I will be famous after my death. I suppose that's something.”

That almost slipped past me but not quite. Please elucidate.
 
jan normandale said:
Bill Mattocks: Quote.... “For what it might be worth, I did define a new school of American photography, for which I will be famous after my death. I suppose that's something.”

That almost slipped past me but not quite. Please elucidate.
Click to expand...

http://www.flickr.com/groups/ruralist/

I am unfortunately the only member at this time. Like I said, after my death...
 
BillP said:
Interesting thread.

I personally regard the term "propaganda" as even-handed - "we" do it and "they" do it.
Click to expand...
Dear Bill,

Perhaps this supports Frances's assertion that there is a difference between American and English perception of the word. Any further thoughts from English speakers on this?

Cheers,

R.
 
kram said:
"propaganda", "PR" - should we also include the 21st C form (in the UK anyway) "Spin"?
Click to expand...

Oh, I think so. 'Spin' is just a euphemism for either anyway -- and I suspect that the euphemism is more despised in the UK than the alternatives.

Certes, I'd rather be an honest propagandist than a 'spin doctor'.

Cheers,

R
 
Roger Hicks said:
Am I obliged to say of Mussolini, "All right, he was a fascist, but he made the trains run on time"?
Click to expand...

It may be more ironic than relevant, but the notion that Mussolini made the trains run on time is just a product of fascist propaganda. The italian railways were improved a great deal following WWI (having been completely shattered during the war), but most of the work was done already before Mussolini's rise to power. The fascists of course credited their Duce with the improvements, but as it were he had nothing to do with them. Improvements and all, it's just part of the myth that the italian trains suddenly ran on time. They still didn't.
 
Somehow "Honest Propagandist" seems to be a contradiction in terms. You can turn anything into a convenient truth by eliminating essential facts that would detract from your position. All of us do this to a point, but a propagandist takes a position on a subject and then supports it by presenting partial truths and neglecting or discrediting any evidence to the contrary.
 
In this age of cynicism anyone who wishes to convey a message through their pictures would be called a propagandist or an activist. No wonder most of the stuff out there is sterile and boring because the photographer is trying to be 'objective'. To me that's nonsense, a photographer must take a position and stand by it; however, that does not mean he fake his pictures to further the said cause.

Salgado is a great example of a photographer who has taken a stand and he makes no qualms about which side his on.
 
Nh3 said:
In this age of cynicism anyone who wishes to convey a message through their pictures would be called a propagandist or an activist. No wonder most of the stuff out there is sterile and boring because the photographer is trying to be 'objective'. To me that's nonsense, a photographer must take a position and stand by it; however, that does not mean he fake his pictures to further the said cause.

Salgado is a great example of a photographer who has taken a stand and he makes no qualms about which side his on.
Click to expand...

Passion is a great asset to insight.

Regards,

Bill
 
Pablito said:
<snip>
Now, were the Farm Security Administration photographers producing propaganda for the U.S. Government in the 30s and 40s? <snip>
Click to expand...

Roy Stryker was open about the fact that FSA mission was not to create an objective record but to generate images that would elicit public support for the farmers.
 
influencing actions

influencing actions

Roger Hicks said:
How far do you try to influence people's actions through your photography? Not just make them say, 'Wow, that's a nice picture', but actually care about something? Or even change their behaviour?
Click to expand...

Roger: my style is documentary photography of disappearing local cultures or non-mainstream social groups. While my primary objective is to create some form of historical document, there is a subliminal or secondary objective in having mainstream society understand and therefore appreciate these groups. It's no where as direct as a war photographer but it is there.

To put it another way, I only photograph those people that I personally feel strongly about. Therefore I want others to feel the same way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom