mooge
Well-known
no, I'm not joking...
what IS the proper exposure for the sun?
cheers,
Dragunov
what IS the proper exposure for the sun?
cheers,
Dragunov
proper exposure for the sun?
- Thread starter mooge
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Al Kaplan
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Shooting B&W or color negative I like to overexpose (by most folks' standsrds) to assure some detail in those contrasty shadows. I call it "the sunny 11 rule". For ISO 400Tri-X that would be 1/500at f/11. Gold 200 color neg is 1/250 at f/11. With transparencies I'd be using f/16 instead of f/11 because burning out the highlights is a serious concern with positive films.
antiquark
Derek Ross
The following page says (sort of) that the sun is 5 stops brighter than a regular scene:
http://www.weatherscapes.com/techniques.php?cat=general&page=filters
The only neutral density filter that is useful to have is an ND5 filter that transmits 0.001% of the incoming light (a fraction of 10-5). These filters are useful if you want to photograph or observe the sun during the daytime, like a partial solar eclipse, multi-sun exposure, or when photographing sunspots with a telescope.
CORRECTION: an ND5 filter will reduce light by a factor of 100, or about 7 stops:
http://www.astro.sunysb.edu/fwalter/AST443/photometry.html
http://www.weatherscapes.com/techniques.php?cat=general&page=filters
The only neutral density filter that is useful to have is an ND5 filter that transmits 0.001% of the incoming light (a fraction of 10-5). These filters are useful if you want to photograph or observe the sun during the daytime, like a partial solar eclipse, multi-sun exposure, or when photographing sunspots with a telescope.
CORRECTION: an ND5 filter will reduce light by a factor of 100, or about 7 stops:
http://www.astro.sunysb.edu/fwalter/AST443/photometry.html
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David William White
Well-known
Prob'ly want to bracket +1/2, -1/2 on either side just to be safe.
Seriously, not sure what to make of the original question, but here are a couple of suggestions that may or may not be useful:
1) If you are trying to shoot a scene with a sunset in it, swing camera so sun is not in the frame, meter & lock exposure, then recompose with the setting sun where you want it.
2) A piece of fully exposed & developed film makes a nice filter to directly shoot the sun through. Meter normally. Probably should say something about not lingering at the eyepiece, though. A TLR or view camera makes a safer platform for shooting the sun directly.
3) Two polarizing filters (not circular polars, however) can be stacked & rotated to provide just about any degree of ND filtration.
Don't know if any of that helps, but there's what came to mind.
D.
aniMal
Well-known
Sunlight is the most consistent condition, and on average it should be around 125/16 on 100 iso. However, it varies slightly with the height of the sun, haze, and things like that. When I worked a lot with an M2/4.2 and a handheld meter, I started noticing these small changes. Like in the summer when a real hot sun gives half a stop extra. Also it would vary with the latitude, these settings are for northern europe really.
Slight haze will reduce with half a stop, and of course a low sun in hazy conditions could lose anything from a stop to almost two.
It is really rewarding to use a handheld meter because it meters the light by incident, not reflection. The readings are easier to learn from because of this, and you start noticing what different types of weather does to the light!
How is it, does anyone have experience with really fierce sunlight? I suspect it could at least give an extra stop...?
Slight haze will reduce with half a stop, and of course a low sun in hazy conditions could lose anything from a stop to almost two.
It is really rewarding to use a handheld meter because it meters the light by incident, not reflection. The readings are easier to learn from because of this, and you start noticing what different types of weather does to the light!
How is it, does anyone have experience with really fierce sunlight? I suspect it could at least give an extra stop...?
mooge
Well-known
Journeyman got it... a picture of the sun, the sun only!
I've seen it done, in science textbooks and such. I was wondering what the exposure would be like. or is it impossible for some reason?
cheers 😎
I've seen it done, in science textbooks and such. I was wondering what the exposure would be like. or is it impossible for some reason?
cheers 😎
Tin
Well-known
Hi Dragunov,
Even with your clarification, I am still not sure whether you wanted to take pictures of sunrise/sunset or the sun itself with sun spots, etc.
(1) If the former, just take a meter reading at the sky at 45 degrees above the rising/setting sun. Then reduce exposure by 2-3 stops, re-compose and shoot. I find that with negative films, -2 stops would give good results, whereas for slide films, -3 stops would usually do the trick. Of course, you should also bracket with +1 and -1 settings. With a digital camera, you just put it on Manual, change settings and see what you can get from the screen.
(2) If you are taking solar pictures as in astronomical photography, you should have a small telescope AND the CORRECT FILTER. The sun is a dangerous subject to photograph.
Do a web search for the appropriate filers. Here is an example:
http://www.mreclipse.com/Special/filters.html
Tin
Even with your clarification, I am still not sure whether you wanted to take pictures of sunrise/sunset or the sun itself with sun spots, etc.
(1) If the former, just take a meter reading at the sky at 45 degrees above the rising/setting sun. Then reduce exposure by 2-3 stops, re-compose and shoot. I find that with negative films, -2 stops would give good results, whereas for slide films, -3 stops would usually do the trick. Of course, you should also bracket with +1 and -1 settings. With a digital camera, you just put it on Manual, change settings and see what you can get from the screen.
(2) If you are taking solar pictures as in astronomical photography, you should have a small telescope AND the CORRECT FILTER. The sun is a dangerous subject to photograph.
Do a web search for the appropriate filers. Here is an example:
http://www.mreclipse.com/Special/filters.html
Tin
Tin
Well-known
David William White
Well-known
See my points 2 and 3.
JohnTF
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Check out the astronomical sites for shooting eclipses, any exposure other than full eclipse should be the same. I shot the European Eclipse in Linz, and I shot a test roll the week before to check the exposure from the recommendations, but, I had purchased a filter from one of the places on line, one had the same material in plastic sheets at a reasonable price. Mounted filters to fit my 500 were pricey.
They will give you exposures, but as I did use a 500mm Mirror with the filter, it must have been at f 8, ISO 100 color negative film, and it was a reasonable speed, so there is your ball park. (with the filter)
You should be able to see any sunspots using the filter.
You can also use the darkest welder's filter, but you may get a color shift, and the size and shape might be a problem.
The "eclipse" glasses I used for a class were some sort of mylar looking stuff, but again, you get a color shift. I had heard of folks using pop tart package foil, and even a floppy disk, but if you are serious, just buy the right filter from one of the astronomy magazine ads and use the recommended exposures.
I had tried stacking ND and Polarizing filters, really did not work, even at 1/8000 second, and the image on XP2 was over exposed and not too sharp.
I think I paid less than $25 for an A4 size sheet of the filter material.
Ctein has shot some terrific eclipse shots, if you want to Google him.
Assume you know the usual things about looking at the sun, even worse through a telephoto. A 500mm will give you a good size image on a 35mm frame. The apparent size of the sun is the same as the moon if you want to get an idea one dark night.
And last, there are some RF's whose lens can focus the sun's image on your shutter in a not so nice way.
I got some nice shots of sunspots, and the partial eclipse, however, just during totality the clouds came in, and then cleared out just afterwards, bad luck. Eclipse in Cleveland years before was annular, and the ND filters gave me lousy results.
People photograph the sun all the time via telescope attachments and the recommended filter. Other than the sun, you will not see anything through it, and you should be able to safely use it to look at the sun.
Chat up some of your science teachers. ;-)
Regards, John
They will give you exposures, but as I did use a 500mm Mirror with the filter, it must have been at f 8, ISO 100 color negative film, and it was a reasonable speed, so there is your ball park. (with the filter)
You should be able to see any sunspots using the filter.
You can also use the darkest welder's filter, but you may get a color shift, and the size and shape might be a problem.
The "eclipse" glasses I used for a class were some sort of mylar looking stuff, but again, you get a color shift. I had heard of folks using pop tart package foil, and even a floppy disk, but if you are serious, just buy the right filter from one of the astronomy magazine ads and use the recommended exposures.
I had tried stacking ND and Polarizing filters, really did not work, even at 1/8000 second, and the image on XP2 was over exposed and not too sharp.
I think I paid less than $25 for an A4 size sheet of the filter material.
Ctein has shot some terrific eclipse shots, if you want to Google him.
Assume you know the usual things about looking at the sun, even worse through a telephoto. A 500mm will give you a good size image on a 35mm frame. The apparent size of the sun is the same as the moon if you want to get an idea one dark night.
And last, there are some RF's whose lens can focus the sun's image on your shutter in a not so nice way.
I got some nice shots of sunspots, and the partial eclipse, however, just during totality the clouds came in, and then cleared out just afterwards, bad luck. Eclipse in Cleveland years before was annular, and the ND filters gave me lousy results.
People photograph the sun all the time via telescope attachments and the recommended filter. Other than the sun, you will not see anything through it, and you should be able to safely use it to look at the sun.
Chat up some of your science teachers. ;-)
Regards, John
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JohnTF
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I guess I should type faster. ;-) j
Tin
Well-known
Exposure for solar eclipse photography:
http://www.eclipse-chasers.com/eclphot.htm
Scroll down the page for suggested exposures for various types of eclipse photography.
Tin
http://www.eclipse-chasers.com/eclphot.htm
Scroll down the page for suggested exposures for various types of eclipse photography.
Tin
mooge
Well-known
well, uh, the mid day sun through, say, a 500mm lens...
anyone know how many stops one of them filters is (did I miss that? sorry, I'm tired...)? or what a filterless exposure would be? I know, it's probably something insane like 1/10,000 @ f/ 512 or something impossible...
I don't intend to do this- I'm young, I need my eyes, I don't have a, uh, I do have a long enough lens... but it's not a good use of my film anyways. but I was curious, if any of you knew.
thanks!
anyone know how many stops one of them filters is (did I miss that? sorry, I'm tired...)? or what a filterless exposure would be? I know, it's probably something insane like 1/10,000 @ f/ 512 or something impossible...
I don't intend to do this- I'm young, I need my eyes, I don't have a, uh, I do have a long enough lens... but it's not a good use of my film anyways. but I was curious, if any of you knew.
thanks!
JohnTF
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Photographing the sun is a bit specialized, the proper filters seem opaque to normal vision, but the photos you see in books are not simply taken with ordinary cameras stopped down. ;-)
That said, if you get a sheet of the proper filter material, you will be set for the next set of sunspots, or the next eclipse.
Regards, John
charjohncarter
Veteran
Knowing the right EI for the film you are using and knowing what development time for full sun, bright: the rest is easy; f16 and 1/EI.
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JohnTF
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Not at all, that might work for the moon, or something viewed on earth by reflected sunlight, but the sun is much brighter when directly viewed.
The lens will focus the sun much as a magnifying glass on a leaf.
I believe the OP is talking about taking photos of the sun itself.
The analogy I made was from my experience setting up to shoot an eclipse, as other than totality you are dealing with the sun as a direct source. I shot a test roll using the filter I purchased from astronomy supply sources the week before to see how the sun would photograph. I know I was shooting at f8 as the mirror lens has only one aperture, and as I recall the shutter speed was rather normal. A 500mm give a good size image.
Regards, John
The lens will focus the sun much as a magnifying glass on a leaf.
I believe the OP is talking about taking photos of the sun itself.
The analogy I made was from my experience setting up to shoot an eclipse, as other than totality you are dealing with the sun as a direct source. I shot a test roll using the filter I purchased from astronomy supply sources the week before to see how the sun would photograph. I know I was shooting at f8 as the mirror lens has only one aperture, and as I recall the shutter speed was rather normal. A 500mm give a good size image.
Regards, John
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