Yes. And there are only a relative handful of vintage Ms. The entire production of film M bodies over 50+ years pales in comparison to digi production figures...
Purely as an Investment: Leica film or Digital Cameras?
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Yes. And there are only a relative handful of vintage Ms. The entire production of film M bodies over 50+ years pales in comparison to digi production figures...
_mark__
Well-known
The collectors who have driven the prices of Leica beyond the means of young aspiring photographers don't deserve the cameras they hord!
Exdsc
Well-known
That is not entirely true.
The surest way a young and aspiring photographer can kill the sparks of photography in him/herself is by getting into photography through the gear-lust route - Leica, Hasselblad etc. A fixed lens RF or small SLR is all they need.
Gear hoarders perform a very important function, they keep vintage gear in good shape and help to pass it down the line.
Most new 'quality' digital cameras cost more than user vintage Leicas, so if those Leicas are beyond the means of young aspring photogs, so are the digitals.
The difference is if you buy a vintage Leica there is essentially zero depreciation unless one abuses the gear. 🙂
The difference is if you buy a vintage Leica there is essentially zero depreciation unless one abuses the gear. 🙂
flip
良かったね！
Re the Moore's Law comment: I feel you. However, the prices that vintage webcams pulled when only they worked with Linux was just silly. Never underestimate the hacker market. It's just a question of how well the cutting edge firmware satisfies the user marketplace.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
I am convinced the M8 will eventually be worth quite a lot.
It is unique among digicams, and now has the further distinction of being partially irreparable.
It is unique among digicams, and now has the further distinction of being partially irreparable.
IEDEI
Well-known
the original poster's question addresses Leica products, in specific.
Flood
Established
That's not how "investment" works.
Consumer price index suggest that in today's money, an M3 cost $2,163 in 1954. Selling it for $1,000 means it lost more than half its value, not +400%.
If you want an investment, look for something else.
source: http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
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dct
perpetual amateur
Still using '70-'90 hp calculators daily. I do collect them too, but a few models are my everyday calcs, because of the very tactile feedback of their keyboards and good ergonomics overall. They worked for decades and are still working properly (keyboard CLA required after many years of use). Are they an investment? Yes, 2nd hand prices are stable. But I don't buy them to sell, just to use, have a spare one or put them in my cabinet.
Exactly the same for digital (or film) cameras. I buy mostly used ones and I've seen the 2nd hand prices level somewhere for all bodies I own. I never would expect that new gear of any kind would hold its value!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
This is not entirely true either. Another very good way to "kill the sparks of photography" is by faffing around with elderly, cheap, nasty, limited cameras; and let's be honest, most fixed-lens RFs were cheap, nasty and limited when they were new, and are now elderly. Of course there were some good ones, but proportionally, not all that many.
Cheers,
R.
valdas
Veteran
Definition of 'Investment' by Investopedia:
"An asset or item that is purchased with the hope that it will generate income or appreciate in the future. In an economic sense, an investment is the purchase of goods that are not consumed today but are used in the future to create wealth"
Unless you earn your living from photography, no camera (film or digital) is an investment (except for collectors market).
"An asset or item that is purchased with the hope that it will generate income or appreciate in the future. In an economic sense, an investment is the purchase of goods that are not consumed today but are used in the future to create wealth"
Unless you earn your living from photography, no camera (film or digital) is an investment (except for collectors market).
jsrockit
Moderator
Not when you compare film Ms to digital Ms. Digital Ms are not sold in HUGE numbers.
jubbaa
Established
I would have thought the answer was pretty straightforward . Price of a used M9 six months ago $4000 ( what I paid ) value today $3500 if I am lucky.
Price of a used M6 six months ago $1100 ( what I paid ) , value today ...around $1100
Long term neither are good investments ( assuming you are talking about return on capital ) but its pretty obvious which you want your money in today.
James
Price of a used M6 six months ago $1100 ( what I paid ) , value today ...around $1100
Long term neither are good investments ( assuming you are talking about return on capital ) but its pretty obvious which you want your money in today.
James
Vincent.G
Well-known
If buying cameras (analog or digital) is considered an investment, then the photos I take and the pleasure of using the camera are the returns of investment.
raid
Dad Photographer
Not really. I am looking ahead a few years. Sam's Club is not accepting any film for developing anymore. Such a move will be followed by other giants. Eventually, C-41 film developing will be too costly to survive.
Hence, film cameras will be doomed, except in the collectors market where cameras are stored in saves.
Vickko
Veteran
My horoscope says this (Virgo):
It may be tempting to sell off a treasured possession so you can pay an outstanding debt, but that’s not a good idea. Money wise, the planets will move in your favour later in the week, so hang in there.
==================================
Let me tell you, cameras as an investment SUCKS.
Because, investments need to be sold, to realize the gain. I'm down to my core set of keepers, and, I do not want to sell any more. So, frankly they are out of the category of investments.
If you want investments, buy something that you won't have any qualms about selling.
And, of course, it has to rise in value. Digital won't.
It may be tempting to sell off a treasured possession so you can pay an outstanding debt, but that’s not a good idea. Money wise, the planets will move in your favour later in the week, so hang in there.
==================================
Let me tell you, cameras as an investment SUCKS.
Because, investments need to be sold, to realize the gain. I'm down to my core set of keepers, and, I do not want to sell any more. So, frankly they are out of the category of investments.
If you want investments, buy something that you won't have any qualms about selling.
And, of course, it has to rise in value. Digital won't.
MarylandBill
Established
Maybe C-41 processing will be too costly to survive as a commercial service, but I don't necessarily see that as the death knell of film photography. The end of easily available black and white film processing didn't end black and white photography and I see no reason to see why the end of C-41 processing (if it happens) will end color film and certainly not film in general.
The real question is, how much downside is left in the market. I suspect, at least in the first world, most film photographers are hobbyists. They shoot film specifically because they prefer shooting it for fun... and many of them (at least black and white shooters) develop it themselves.
We might end up with just one or two companies producing 3 or 4 types of film, but I just don't see film completely going away any time soon. I suspect there will still be 35mm and 120 film available 50 years from now.
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Bill
raid
Dad Photographer
We are discussing the "investment" potential here, so when part of a market vanishes, the rest of the market may suffer, especally since most young people are growing up with electronics.
jsrockit
Moderator
One could argue that B&W developement is way easier to do at home...
MarylandBill
Established
Perhaps not, but there certainly seem to have been enough that with some guidance, someone interested in learning photography can get started without too much difficulty. I was given a Fujica Compact Deluxe, and found an Olympus 35sp rather cheap in a thrift store. The same thrift store often has Yashicas (I just can't justify a third 40-45mm fixed lens rangefinder at the moment). And lets remember there are a few nasty and limited intercangable lens rangefinders too; I have heard some interesting things about Argus C44s...
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Bill
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