Purple because of pre-soaking?

[zerobuttons]

I have so far developed a few films on my own - Tri-X and FP4+ in ID-11, and noticed that they turn out a bit purple all of them.

I searched in this forum and stumbled upon this:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1038942&postcount=2

Can anyone here confirm this? I have pre-soaked all my films so far, and will of course try out developing without pre-soaking as soon as possible (this evening). I would still like to hear comments on this, if you have any.

 

[Chris101]

In my experience, purple means something isn't right with your fix/wash cycle.

 

[Chyn]

The only times when my developed Trix turned out purplish was due to nearly exhausted rapid fixer. I would double check the fixer to see if it's still good.

 

[Matus]

My personal experience (although with TMax 400 and Delta 400) is that they need longer fixing (10 minutes) as the color of the base (different with each film) takes longer to wash. For example - if the Delta would be fixed for too short - the base will be slightly magenta in color. Especially if your fixer is too old (used) than the fixing times go up.

I did not observe that longer washing in a clean water would solve this problem. I keep the film in the fixer until it is clear and only then proceed with washing. I use standard fixer from Ilford (both for films and papers) mixed 1:4 for about 10 minutes.

 

[hydroquinone]

Hi,

I never presoak any of my films, the purplish effect you mention should be gone if you fix some more minutes.

I am fixing my films 7 minutes and do not have this issue anymore.

 

[mfunnell]

Interesting. How purple is purple? I have rolls of Tri-X (which I've only recently started using) which don't look at all purple - unless they catch the angle of the light "just right" where I see a vaguely purplish tinge. Is that "normal" or is this evidence I should fix for longer? I've been using Ilford Rapid Fixer at 1:9 for 5 minutes, agitating for 10secs/min before thorough rinsing (the rinsing is thorough enough that I can't imagine a problem there). Should I extend the fixing time? Or is the "only at an occasional angle" thing (for otherwise neutral-looking negatives) OK?

All advice from experience regarding this would be very, very gratefully accepted.

...Mike

 

[NathanJD]

I thought it was a feature of different film types! when I develop Acros it runs out purple and leaves the actual film purplish. when I develop Ilford film this doesn't happen at all and the film it's self is not tinted.

 

[hydroquinone]

I thought it was a feature of different film types! when I develop Acros it runs out purple and leaves the actual film purplish. when I develop Ilford film this doesn't happen at all and the film it's self is not tinted.

Yes that's true no problems with ILFORD films, I have only noticed this with, TX, Tmax100 and 400 and neopan400.

 

[oscroft]

Some Kodak films, like Tri-X, have a purple base - it's part of the anti-halation business.

I really don't think it's anything to do with fixing - if you just wash it for longer, you'll get it out. (If longer fixing helps, it's probably just helping to wash it out - the film is still perfectly well fixed at the usual time).

There was never a "fixing" problem back in the old days when people used to wash their film for longer.

Cheers,

 

[oscroft]

PS: A slight purplish tint left in Tri-X negs is no problem at all - most will still have a little bit of it left

 

[zerobuttons]

Since there are differing opinions here about what to blaim, I will try changing two things - only one each time and keep the rest of the process the same:

1) Skip pre-soak and keep my fixing time the same (double clearing time and a bit more)
2) Pre-soak and fix 7 minutes (instead of 3 minutes as I do now with fresh Ilford Rapid Fixer)

I will return with results.

 

[ItsReallyDarren]

A good fix and wash will take care of most coloring. If the purple in tri-x is bugging you, put the negative sheet in sunlight for a few minutes. I've done it before out of curiosity, seems to work.

 

[zerobuttons]

.....
I will return with results.

Now I have tried two more development processes, which still left me with a slightly purple film. What I did was this:

1:
Ilford FP4+, exposed at ISO 125
Ilford ID-11 (1+1), 11 minutes, 10 sec. agitation every minute, 20 deg. C
Ilford Ilfostop (1+19), 30 sec., constant agitation, 20 deg. C
Ilford Rapid Fixer (1+4), 3 min., 30 sec. agitation every minute, 20 deg. C
Force flush with tap water, 5 min., 20 deg. C

2:
Ilford FP4+, exposed at ISO 125
Pre-soaking with tap water, 30 sec., constant agitation, 20 deg. C
Ilford ID-11 (1+1), 11 minutes, 10 sec. agitation every minute, 20 deg. C
Ilford Ilfostop (1+19), 30 sec., constant agitation, 20 deg. C
Ilford Rapid Fixer (1+4), 7 min., 30 sec. agitation every minute, 20 deg. C
Force flush with tap water, 5 min., 20 deg. C

The fixer used in both cases still clears a film strip in much less than 1 minute. I will try with an even longer fixing time, though. I will also try leaving strips of film in sunlight as it was suggested.

 

[ooze]

I have so far developed a few films on my own - Tri-X and FP4+ in ID-11, and noticed that they turn out a bit purple all of them.
.

The purple tint is not related to the presoak at all. Fix your film properly (around 5 minutes in rapid fixer of your preferred brand) and wash extensively. The purple tint is indeed a bit more obstinate with Kodak films. Personally, I wash the film in 4-5 changes of water, and I leave the film sit in the water for 5 minutes in between the changes, so that any remaining fixer etc. will diffuse out of the emulsion.
Another very effective method to remove the purple colour is to use a hypo clearing bath (e.g. Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent) after the fix. This should cut your washing time in half.

Both methods work well for me and I get clear negatives without any colour tint.

By the way, I also presoak my film.

 

[ooze]

Now I have tried two more development processes, which still left me with a slightly purple film. What I did was this:

1:
Ilford FP4+, exposed at ISO 125
Ilford ID-11 (1+1), 11 minutes, 10 sec. agitation every minute, 20 deg. C
Ilford Ilfostop (1+19), 30 sec., constant agitation, 20 deg. C
Ilford Rapid Fixer (1+4), 3 min., 30 sec. agitation every minute, 20 deg. C
Force flush with tap water, 5 min., 20 deg. C

2:
Ilford FP4+, exposed at ISO 125
Pre-soaking with tap water, 30 sec., constant agitation, 20 deg. C
Ilford ID-11 (1+1), 11 minutes, 10 sec. agitation every minute, 20 deg. C
Ilford Ilfostop (1+19), 30 sec., constant agitation, 20 deg. C
Ilford Rapid Fixer (1+4), 7 min., 30 sec. agitation every minute, 20 deg. C
Force flush with tap water, 5 min., 20 deg. C

The fixer used in both cases still clears a film strip in much less than 1 minute. I will try with an even longer fixing time, though. I will also try leaving strips of film in sunlight as it was suggested.

With FP4+ 2-3 minutes of fixing will suffice.

 

[Chris101]

3 minutes fix, 5 minutes wash... There's your problem, right there. Don't be so impatient!

 

[Tim Gray]

I find that Plus-X and Tri-X have a slight purple tint to the base. Slight. When I use the same development procedures on TMAX, which are supposed to require longer fixing/washing, they come out gray. So, if it's real purple, worry. If it's slightly purple as in not neutral, don't worry about it.

 

[zerobuttons]

I seem to have solved this problem now, but I will answer myself, for the benefit of others who run into this problem.

I bought another washing agent the other day, just to try it, and suddenly my films came out without the purple tint. I bought "4&1 Hypo Eliminator" made by Edwal. It is supposed to be mixed 1+31.

So far I have only results with Kodak Tri-X 400, but so far the results are so convincing that I don´t doubt that the problem was my washing - even though I have used the force washing device made for my Jobo tank all the time.

Thank you to all of you for answering and giving hints along the way.

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

T grain films require more fixing time... I fix all films for 8-10 minutes in new fixer always. Those you have now dry with a bit of purple/milky tone, can be fixed again, and it will dissapear...

Cheers,

Juan