Putts thoughts on upcoming M8

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Hardcore Leica man Erwin Putts has posted a interesting, and somewhat cryptic article about the new M8, or D-CRF as he calls it on his site.

He talks a lot about the heart that might be missing from the M8 (something about it having the shutter from the R9, 1/8000 sec speeds) and makes some observations about the current state of the digital market.

http://www.imx.nl/photosite/comments/c027.html

Overall an interesting read for people interested in the M8 or the future of Leica.
 
It must be nice to know everything. Putts does know his stuff, but I have a hard time getting through his articles. All this "will the Leica M compete with Canon or Nikon?" concern really doesn't get us anywhere. The camera is going to be here whether or not it can compete with the other big names. Also, rangefinders are probably never going to sell competitively agianst SLR's. They are great tools, as all of us here already know, but they are not for everyone. I don't think anyone should worry whether 10 megapixels is enough. For the style of shooting that most people do with their Leica M's it will probably be more than enough. I don't see many 20X30 street photographs hanging off the walls in art galleries. Most of us will probably just display our work electronically or on the wall with 11X14's. We have alot of happy R-D1 owners around here that will tell you that 6 megapixels is fine for them. You don't always have to be at the forefront with the latest/greatest to make great photographs. Most of us are happy with the results from our M4-P's, M3's, and IIIf's and 50's and 60's era lenses. Why should we need to have the latest and greatest sensor to make us feel like our work is adequate? Personally, the R-D1 looks like a great camera to me, I am contempating ordering one if one can be found anywhere these days.
 
I've got a bad feeling about this......the whole situation brings Mamiya's experience to mind. They've taken too long to come out with a 10MP.....
I'm sticking with film, but I fear for Leica's survival. Digital truly is the devil.....
Mike
 
dadsm3 said:
I've got a bad feeling about this......the whole situation brings Mamiya's experience to mind. They've taken too long to come out with a 10MP.....
I'm sticking with film, but I fear for Leica's survival. Digital truly is the devil.....
Mike
Click to expand...


you and me both
 
The R-D1 is a great camera and has brought me back to rangefinder photography and my Leica glass. It hints at what is possible from a Leica M8. For me, 10Mp is enough for the end result I am looking for. Keep in mind that a 40Mp camera will only double the linear resolution.

The world is too pre-occupied with mega-pixels because they are an easy number to latch on to. In the finish, it will be a combination of Leica glass, the sensor and the image processing which will yield the images were are looking for.

Erwin likes to stir things, it's how he gets noticed.
 
Gary R said:
I don't think anyone should worry whether 10 megapixels is enough. For the style of shooting that most people do with their Leica M's it will probably be more than enough. I don't see many 20X30 street photographs hanging off the walls in art galleries. Most of us will probably just display our work electronically or on the wall with 11X14's. .. You don't always have to be at the forefront with the latest/greatest to make great photographs. Most of us are happy with the results from our M4-P's, M3's, and IIIf's and 50's and 60's era lenses. Why should we need to have the latest and greatest sensor to make us feel like our work is adequate?
Click to expand...

I agree wholeheartedly. I want a digital version of my M6 which can deliver the same quality as I get from film. That's it. Why we should have to live without it while Leica would try to develop one that can rival 6x9 or 4x5 is beyond my ability to fathom. Let those folks buy Canons. Their 12-16MP full-frame digitals are so good that they're dissatisfied with the lenses made for them, and yet they're salivating for a 22MP version.
 
I've stopped worrying re the megapixels. As previously stated here it's the glass, the sensor, the software, and don't forget the nut behind the camera that will determine the success or failure. i think that Leica has judiciously waited until the technology matured to intro this new camera. Almost killed the company but probably smart in the long run. I'm #17 on Tony Rose's list for the M8 - or whatever it's to be called.
Steve
 
Without the cloth shutter, won't the new digital M sound like a Bessa?

I'm not sure that many folks will plunk down a huge chunk of money for a louder digital rangefinder.
 
Larry H-L said:
Without the cloth shutter, won't the new digital M sound like a Bessa?

I'm not sure that many folks will plunk down a huge chunk of money for a louder digital rangefinder.
Click to expand...

Well, what does the R-9 sound like, when you pre-trip the mirror? Same shutter as the forthcoming Digital M.
 
Yeah, I guess Leica's bigges problem have always been Leica users for the last thirty years or so, at least since the M5. The camera is idolised so much that whatever innovation Leica is trying to make, a significant percentage of the conservative userbase is going to be disappointed.

Philipp
 
There are obviously going to be some changes from classic Leica "M" shape to accomodate the completely different insides. Hopefully these will be minor, but tha fact is that the shutter will be the same, or similar to the vertical blade shutter in the R9. Which will make it similar to the shutters in the Zeiss Ikon, and the Voigtlander rangefinders. The sound a shutter makes is not just the shutter, but the package it is put into. The Leica bodies have always been robust and the lenses are heavy and dense in construction, all qualities that can muffle and subdue the sound of any shutter. I would think the upcoming Digial M will be the quietest digital rangefinder possible, but perhaps not quite as whisper quiet as a film-based "M" camera from Leica. While I don't own one, I would be curious to know what the sound of the Leica R-8 and R-9 SLR cameras sound like, if you pre-trip the mirror, so you are only hearing the sound of the shutter. Do the Leica "R" cameras have a mirror pre-trip?

How many of you will be disappointed if the Digial "M" is bigger? or Longer? What if it is more M-5 in size? How about if it resembles a M-6 with an extension on the base like it had a winder? All possibilities to accomodate the electronics.

Is the Epson RD-1 any larger than the Voigtlander chassis it is built on? Is it thicker? Don't have one to compare.
 
If the R8-9 are as silent as the R7 I used to own, there is little to worry about. I would say that camera, apart from the mirror slap, which is well dampedon an R body, was about as loud as my M6, just a bit more click than cluck if you get my drift.
 
ten bucks says a 10mp file from the m8 will be sharper than a 10mp file from a d200 or whatever because of the optics. assuming the software is as good, of course.

"Both approaches (Kobayashi's wait-and-see and Leica/Spichting's jump-into-the-action) have merits and can be defended on several counts."

what? cosina and epson make the r-d1, and a couple years later leica comes out with the m8. who's jumping in and who's waiting?
 
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I think some of these specs are known...the camera will be very close to the vertical and horizontal dimensions of the M7, and 1mm thicker. Most reviewers who have actually done side-by-side reviews say that the older, 6mp chip of the R-D1 is as good as film when printed. The M8 should be better; should be better, I'd think (given the extra time to work on it) than the R8. Therer are going to be some sticky issues, because many of the users will be switching over from film, and won't know how to go about maximizing the quality they get from the chip.

Maybe we should have pre-M8 release discussions of

-Expose to the Right
-White Balance
-RAW vs. jpeg
-flash memory card speeds
-RAW processing programs
-Noise management programs
-Data base programs (like Adobe Lightroom)

JC
 
What is ... is. I'm the first to admit that I'm a bit of a retro-luddite-mechano addict. But I vote we let Leitz actually SHIP the M-freakin-8. Pixesl ain't just pixels ... file quality depends on more than pixel count. Has anyone looked at certo6's oBoy listings? Great shots taken with a 1.6MP Agfa digi-antique.

And this "full frame" debate... Gee, I wish Pentax would make a full frame (i.e., 35mm) Pentax 110.
 
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