Putts thoughts on upcoming M8

[fotografz]

If the M8 were here tomorrow it wouldn't be too soon. All the years of developing rangefinder technique won't go to waste.

I'm currently at the top of the food chain in terms of digital gear ... H2D-39, CFV Digital back on a 503CW & 203FE, 1DsMII, DMR/9, Canon 5D ... applied to commercial photography, weddings, on-set stills, travel and personal work.

10+ meg with a 1.37X sensor will be fine for doing what rangefinder work is normally used for. I will use the M8 along side the M7 with B&W film to shoot weddings. I cannot wait to NOT carry a 1DsMKII around all day in 90 degree weather.

Everyone assumes the M8 will be snapped up by a limited number of Leica users.
I personally know a boat load of Contax users just waiting for this camera.

 

[ezio gallino]

Originally Posted by Flyfisher Tom
-6 MP is plenty for most of us.
Yes it might be true...



-Get the camera to:
-1) full-frame

----Won't happen due to the angle of incidence.
Maybe someone will find a way to orient pixels according to light incidence...
When? tomorrow or not next 200 years😕


-2) get the price point down to $2000
not quite realistic considering manufacturing costs and trying to maintain actual excellent quality Leica's standards.
True Leicas are like Patek-Philippe or Ferrari's: a status symbol first and excellent tools AFTER; management knows this very well.

 

[kdemas]

I had a nice talk with the product manager for the M8 and the shutter will be very quiet. To hear the exact sound pop up the mirror in an R8 or 9 and snap away. It will be even quieter as there is now big mirror box to resonate.

I can hardly wait to give one a try later this year, lets hope it's all we expect.

Kent

 

[Bob Ross]

Thanks Kent, that is reassuring. My point of curiosity about the M8 is whether it will have hybrid white balance like the high end DSLR models from C, N & O. I have it on the E-1 and love it.

 

[kdemas]

Bob,

It will be interesting to see how advanced things like the white balance management will be. It should be interesting. I am also hoping that there will be a decent buffer for raw shooting.

Kent

 

[Ben Z]

I'm more concerned with the ISO 400 and up noise. For the money I'd like to be able to shoot at 1600 and 3200 with less noise than there is grain on films of the same speed. My Canon 20D can do that, so I hope the M8 can as well but from what I've read, high-ISO noise isn't a strong point of the DMR.

 

[Bob Ross]

I'm more concerned with the ISO 400 and up noise. For the money I'd like to be able to shoot at 1600 and 3200 with less noise than there is grain on films of the same speed. My Canon 20D can do that, so I hope the M8 can as well but from what I've read, high-ISO noise isn't a strong point of the DMR.

I don't think that we'll see noise profiles like Canon or the newer consumer DSLRs that use noise reduction that does steal detail. I suspect that we'll see something along the lines of the E-1, D-200 or DMR. Digital does seem to be ahead of film for noise/grain, but it is different, because it shows up in the shadows instead of highlights like film. For me it isn't that there is noise, it is what does it look like. The chromatic noise is just ugly and usually detracts from the image. Printing can usually reduce noise, so whatever we see on the monitor screen will be different on the print. What the lack of an AA filter does to this will be interesting to see.

 

[jaapv]

If the M8 were here tomorrow it wouldn't be too soon. All the years of developing rangefinder technique won't go to waste.

I'm currently at the top of the food chain in terms of digital gear ... H2D-39, CFV Digital back on a 503CW & 203FE, 1DsMII, DMR/9, Canon 5D ... applied to commercial photography, weddings, on-set stills, travel and personal work.

10+ meg with a 1.37X sensor will be fine for doing what rangefinder work is normally used for. I will use the M8 along side the M7 with B&W film to shoot weddings. I cannot wait to NOT carry a 1DsMKII around all day in 90 degree weather.

Everyone assumes the M8 will be snapped up by a limited number of Leica users.
I personally know a boat load of Contax users just waiting for this camera.

That is a reassuring post. It would be nice to see Leica move back into the professional world. The qualities it stands for are, in a way, wasted on us amateurs (not meant as a belligerent remark, I couldn't think to phrase this better) Obviously we will not see it amongst the battery of white barrels at the Olympics, but I can imagine general journalists, war correpondents and wedding photograpers loving it, as some corporate, fashion and technical photography professionals snapped up the DMR.

 

[Mark Norton]

All those white lens barrels ay Wimbledon and the World Cup - Are they all Canon lenses, seem to dominate.

 

[jaapv]

There is some black returning nowadays. Nikon seems to be crawling out of their dip.

 

[jonasv]

All those white lens barrels ay Wimbledon and the World Cup - Are they all Canon lenses, seem to dominate.

For anything that requires over 200mm, Canon is definitely used the most, but don't forget that Nikon offers all their long lenses (300mm+) in white as well, and many pros opt for this because of heat issues outdoors in the sun. In other areas, like general photojournalism or concert photography, for every Canon you see, you see at least five or six Nikons. At least here in Belgium. So it really depends where you look - what country, what type of photography, ...

 

[Dougg]

The largest Pentax lenses are white also.

 

[Zack]

Its seems silly to me that everyone keeps saying "the images will be as good as *insert dslr here*", But the dslr is almost 1/4 of the price, can you really justify spending 4 times more money just because it says leica on it. For 5k you could buy and m7 and a dslr that would probably make just as good of images.


On a separate note, it always seems like the papparatzi use nikons

 

[Dougg]

Its seems silly to me that everyone keeps saying "the images will be as good as *insert dslr here*", But the dslr is almost 1/4 of the price, can you really justify spending 4 times more money just because it says leica on it.

Zack, it IS kind of a strange situation, but I think it's fair to compare image quality among digital cameras. OTOH I believe it is NOT sensible to suggest a dSLR as an alternative to a digital RF. They are two different kinds of camera, very different in usage. It's like looking at your buddy's new Red Corvette and saying Gee, too bad; he could have gotten a really nice tricked-out SUV for a lot less...

 

[Zack]

I agree it is like comparing apples to oranges, but if we agree image quality is comparable what is that extra $4000 you're paying go towards? Just because the m8 is smaller, has rangefinder focusing, and a red dot on it its worth $4000 more, i find that very hard to believe.

 

[Bob Ross]

I agree it is like comparing apples to oranges, but if we agree image quality is comparable what is that extra $4000 you're paying go towards? Just because the m8 is smaller, has rangefinder focusing, and a red dot on it its worth $4000 more, i find that very hard to believe.

The premise of your statements is that image quality is comparable to $1000 entry level DSLRs? If so, I wont agree. Image quality most likely be comparable to the DMR, which compares favorably or better to the EOS 1DsMkII and some brave reviewers say that it approaches medium format (they probably mean 645). The main draw is that the Leica M lenses can outshine most SLR lenses and this glass has been idle and many collections exceed the $4000 extra that you talk about. The hope, of course, is that the lenses plus the already proven image quality will do something special. What price value each of us will put on that will vary.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

I agree it is like comparing apples to oranges, but if we agree image quality is comparable what is that extra $4000 you're paying go towards? Just because the m8 is smaller, has rangefinder focusing, and a red dot on it its worth $4000 more, i find that very hard to believe.

Leica is not churned out of some sweat shop in China where they just slap on dots or squares or triangles or any other logos. Having "the red dot" from Leica means that Leica has given its blessing at least, and there is a lot of engineering investment behind that.

That said, if most of their components are not made or supervised by them, that is adding insult to injury.

And comparing a Honda Goldwing to a Cadillac Imperialistalade by means of saying that they're the same because they both consume gasoline, ride on roads, are driven by humans (perhaps), can be stopped by the same cops, and follow the laws of physics and thermodynamics still loses sight that one is a motorcycle and the other is a hideous truck wannabe. If you want to haul your whole family in a Goldwing, don't go around complaining that it's not comparable to a school bus.

And I say "you" in general (one), not you, Zack. 😉

 

[Ted Witcher]

Slightly OT, I guess, but have any reports indicated that one of the viewfinder choices might be 1:1? I doubt it, of course, but I think there is a usefulness to the R3a's open-eyes viewfinder that Leica is not exploiting.

 

[Mark Norton]

The viewfinder/rangefinder is the USP of the M8 and, if anything like the M7, is one of the major costs, as Leica themselves say in the book "50 years of the Leica M", it is much more expensive to make than the viewfinder of an SLR.

It's also one aspect of the camera we know very little about.

The combination of rangefinder base length and viewfinder magnification place limits on the lenses which can be used - they can be mounted, for sure, but can you focus accurately with them? As the depth of field of a lens decreases, so you need to be able to focus more accurately to get the results ytou want.

Reading between the lines, it looks like the 135 will not use usable with the camera, so that the 90/2 and 75/1.4 will be at the limit. LCT thinks this means a viewfinder magnification of 0.78 to support these lenses.

At the other end of the scale, 28mm is now only moderately wide - 37mm equivalent field of view - and one of the many unanswered questions is whether the 21 and 24 will be supported directly or will an aux finder still be required?

The ideal solution would be a dual-range viewfinder, optimised for shooting wide with one setting and long with the other.

With the M7, you could consider buying two bodies with different viewfinders. With the M8, that's tougher to justify because of the higher cost and lower likely value retention.

 

[Zack]

I think right now its hard to speculate on how good or bad it will be because of the (some what) limited information available, i just hope that everyone doesnt instantly put the m8 up on a pedistal because it is a leica. It would be a shame for everyone to get their hopes up and pay $5000 for a good but not great camera.


Will the frame lines be adjusted to the crop factor?