Puzzled over a IIIa

greyelm

greyelm

Malcolm
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I've just received my first Leica which according to the serial number (212055) is a 1936 IIIa. It has been ?factory converted to flash sync under the accessory shoe but the shutter speeds only go up to 500 with 20-1 and T to 20 on the front dial.

I have read the IIIa has a speed of 1000, so could mine have had a replacement shutter speed mechanism fitted when the sync was installed?

I am looking forward to running a roll through it soon although I will have to use my FSU Jupiter-8 as I haven't got a Leitz lens yet.
 
Are you sure there is no 1/1000th? Try setting the shutter dial past 500, it might engage somewhere over there. In which case, the shutter dial has been replaced with a III shutter dial instead of a IIIa dial.

If not, everything is possible... even a mixup in the Leica book, although that seems unlikely.
 
Anything could have happened to the camera.

The shutter mechanism could have been replaced with one from a III, the top plate could have been replaced and you actually have a III with an IIIa top plate and serial number, shutter speed dial could be the wrong type etc.

I've owned (and still own) Barnacks that have had all sorts of weird and wonderful things done to them or that were issued in that way - even Leitz sometimes slipped up.

Best thing to do is to use it and enjoy it, and as the French say, vive la difference.
 
500 is the max, nothing past it on the dial.

A question about the sync, as there are no supplementary settings like on the IIIf do I just fire it a 1/30? I've already dry tested at this and the flash does fire but not tested with a film yet.

Don't you just love these old cameras, point and shoot doesn't exist, you have to use your brain! My Lumix G1 probably has more computing power than the Apollo landings so you don't have to think unless you want to.
 
greyelm said:
500 is the max, nothing past it on the dial.
Click to expand...

I suspect you have a III with a IIIa top cover.. All IIIa's had a top speed of 1/1000th. That was the difference between the 2 models..

greyelm said:
A question about the sync, as there are no supplementary settings like on the IIIf do I just fire it a 1/30? I've already dry tested at this and the flash does fire but not tested with a film yet.
Click to expand...

This is not a factory conversion.. Flash sync speed would be 1/20th.
 
greyelm said:
500 is the max, nothing past it on the dial.

A question about the sync, as there are no supplementary settings like on the IIIf do I just fire it a 1/30? I've already dry tested at this and the flash does fire but not tested with a film yet.

Don't you just love these old cameras, point and shoot doesn't exist, you have to use your brain! My Lumix G1 probably has more computing power than the Apollo landings so you don't have to think unless you want to.
Click to expand...

There is a test you can do without film:

  1. remove the lens and the baseplate
  2. insert a white piece of paper wide enough to cover the film gate into the bottom of the camera like you would film
  3. open the shutter on T
  4. draw an line the long way across the exposed paper and put arrowhead on each end just touching the edge of the frame
  5. close the shutter, wind, and reset it to 1/30th
  6. connect the flash and aim it into the film chamber from a modest distance
  7. fire the camera and see if both ends of the arrow are visible and lit brightly by the flash.

If you can see both ends of the arrow lit by the flash they you have proper sync. if you see only one end retest using a slower speed and/or a different delay setting (assuming your conversion have the conventional added collar around the shutter speed dial).

BTW, the only difference between a III and a IIIa is the top shutter speed. If it only goes to 1/500th then its a III. The serial numbers for the two overlap substantially. You need a serial number list that details the small batches that were alternately assigned to each of the two models in order to know the model to which the number was supposedly assigned. The list in my old Hove "Pocket Book" does show 212055 to have been part of a batch of IIIa's in fairly late 1936. Who knows what happened when. The sync conversion may have resulted in a changed shutter dial or top cover.
 
I have one with a serial starting with 221,xxx also from 1936 that like yours has been factory converted. But mine has the 1000th top speed. I wonder if yours could have been a conversion from something else to 111a then later converted with the flash sync??? Mine also has the 111f "collar" around the shutter speed dial which is used to set the flash delay.
 
There's something else sbout this camera that doesn't fit with the descriptions of a IIIa, it is the design of the top shutter dial. On mine the dial is not vertically knurled but has three bumps with a few horizontal striations in between the bumps.
 
This is mine

Speeddial-1.jpg
 
Last edited:
Been thinking about it and it seems to me that a few years after your camera was made there was a break in the diplomatic relationship between England and Germany, where the factory was. So from 1939 onwards a Leica that was damaged (and there were enough opportunities for it) might not have had access to spare parts and so would be cobbled together with bits and pieces. I can imagine it getting a thump on the top plate that would have damaged the top plate and shutter speed dial: the shutter speed dial could simply have come loose and been lost. It's just a small screw holding it.

And Leicas couldn't export to Great Britain until 1950 or 51: or could only export a few cameras and parts. So the repair may well have been ignored until we all came along and started analysing it.

In the 1940's ownership of a Leica would have been rare and they were much sought after by the War Office for official use and photographers. Things go so bad with second-hand ones being worth 2 or even 3 times the new price by 1942 that the Govt made a price order that restored prices of new and second-hand ones to 1939 levels.

Hope this helps a little.

Regards, David
 
David Hughes said:
(...) In the 1940's ownership of a Leica would have been rare and they were much sought after by the War Office for official use and photographers. Things go so bad with second-hand ones being worth 2 or even 3 times the new price by 1942 that the Govt made a price order that restored prices of new and second-hand ones to 1939 levels. (...)
Click to expand...

In one of Ivor Matanle's books there is re-printed a War Office's advertising.

Re: what happened when there was no spare part supply?

I think, David, your assumption is a very sound one!
 
You should shoot some film in it and see how it exposes. If the exposures are good, don't worry about the 1/1000 not being there, as my experience w/ these cameras (and a lot of M3's as well) is that in many cases the 1/1000 setting is imaginary anyway. I've owned a lot of Leicas where there just wasn't much difference between 1/500 and 1/1000, if any. A good CLA is usually required to get the top shutter speed going, and even then what I usually end up w/ is 1/600 to 1/750 anyway, not even a half stop difference.
 
upper pic looks like a flash cam dial that was retro fitted to operate an external flash sync attachment to the cold shoe on the camera.
 
The flash cam suggestion sounds reasonable but the camera also has a flash socket on the back below the accessory shoe, this may well have been fitted on a separate occasion. For information the camera has a bottom plate with 'open & close' in English + 'Germany' (may not be original though) and the top plate has 'A & R'. So I'm presuming that it was an export model and this would fit in with David Hughes' comment about absence of spares.
 
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