thelovecollect
Established
ZorkiKat said:
that was really helpful, thanks..
FrankS
Registered User
I've heard old timers (relative to me) talk about a special (positive) quality of much-used and replenished D76. The older the batch, the better they liked the negs it developed. Whenever a fresh batch needed to be mixed up, several rolls of film would be sacrificed: exposed to light and developed so that the D76 would not be so "raw".
eddie con
Established
this thread is going to be very helpful. i have been itching to ask about d76. i plan to do processing of my own bw again and i have forgotten already. this thread will be very helpful. and frank, i will try that suggestion on the much-used and replenished d76. it is good ecological practice too. i just hope it wont be hard looking for those supplies.
FrankS
Registered User
Hi Eddie, someone already indicated that replenishment of D76 is more applicable to high volume users, not those of us who develop one or two rolls per week.
ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
FrankS said:
Frank
Could it be perhaps that bromide gives the effects which these photographers preferred in their negatives? "Raw" D76 does not contain any bromide. Film leaves some as it develops in D76.
I didn't quite like the effect of highly replenished D76 on my negatives. The middle tones got somewhat compressed. The negatives seemed to be more "brilliant" in terms of contrast, compared to those developed when the developer was fresh. The snappy contrast did not sit well with my working methods.
Jay
Last edited:
ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
eddie con said:
Eddie
Kamusta! QC ka rin pala
Replenishment won't do the environment any better. You'd still be dumping the developer by the time you've finished it. You really have to develop a lot of film regularly to make replenishment feasible. Otherwise, if you replenish developer which you don't get to use at all in weeks, the developer, even with replenisher added would still go bad and lose its activity. There would be no guarantee that a replenished developer will act exactly as it was designed to do.
With the way things are now here, D76 is already hard to find. And when D76 developer was readily available, D76 Replenisher wasn't even sold. We made our own D76 replenisher from scratch.
Replenishment will never extend the life of the developer indefinitely. It will only make developer activity consistent at the time it is used.
One more thing. Each film leaves more than bromide in the developer solution. The clear glass bottles I used to store my replenished D76 in turned mirror- grey. Silver from the film (as 'eaten' by the large amount of sulfite in developer) gets to be plated on the bottle's inner surfaces. When you dump the solution out, your effluents will contain a lot of silver in it- that's not a very "green" practice.
Then there's also the silver plating issue. I'm not certain if the silver which the sulfite shaved out of the film it developed really gets redeposited in the succeeding films which go through the developer. If it does, replating will take its toll in the negative's apparent sharpness. Silver floating in the solution will attach themselves on the developing image's edges, making them dull. Apparent sharpness is one characteristic determined by the developer, its dilution, and method of use.
For an occasional low-volume user, one-shot, dilution methods work better. You'll get better, more consistent negatives too.
Jay
Last edited:
eddie con
Established
FrankS said:
Noted, Frank. and thanks again Jay.
phototone
Well-known
kaiyen said:
It is not that I "go for" MORE solvent effect with larger formats, its just that for my workflow, I have a 3.5 gallon tank I need to fill with developer, and use frequently, and you can only do this with STRAIGHT D-76. You can replenish STRAIGHT D-76 and keep using it over and over for many months. Some people feel that aged, replenished D-76 has tonal advantages, also. I have stainless steel film hangers that hold 4 sheets 4x5, also hangers that hold 1 sheet 8x10. The Tanks fit the hangers. One tank for developer, one for stop-bath, one for fixer.
Another tank rigged up for washing. All have air tight lids when not in use.
With this arrangement I can process from 1 sheet of 4x5 to 40 sheets at a time.,
or up to 10 sheets 8x10 with the hangers I have.
To consider doing this with D-76 1:1 would be cost prohibitive and wasteful, as I would have to dump the developer after one use regardless of the quantity of sheets developed. Several years ago, when I was doing quite a lot of 4x5 b/w film processing on a regular basis, I would use the tank of D-76 for a year, with replenishment, with good results.
I also have this arrangement of 3.5 gallon tanks in a water-jacketed sink with temperature control for C-41 and E-6.
I do use D-76 diluted 1:1 for my "minature" negatives, as a one shot, develop and dump.
phototone
Well-known
thelovecollect said:
D-76 replenisher (if it is still made) is a powder that is mixed up just like the developer. You store it in an airtight bottle. After each processing run, you add a measured amount of replenisher, based on a printed sheet that gives you the amount to add for each roll or sheet developed multiplied by the number of rolls or sheets you ran.
For replenisher to work properly, you must add it to the developer after each processing run. You can replenish your developer for quite some time, possibly up to a year. It works better if you process daily or at least every few days. It is also best if you are working from a large tank of developer, such as my 3.5 gallon tanks in my darkroom set-up. NOTE: This is only for STOCK D-76, not any of the diluted solutions.
If you develop and replenish every few days, and have a tank with an air-tight lid, then you can keep going for quite some time. If you process rarely, then the stock developer will still age and become weak, regardless.
thelovecollect
Established
phototone said:
thanks, i don't think i will be a replenisher user with the amount of film i develop..
if you guys don't mind, i have a developer question in general..
is the film surface area a factor in development time?
say you want to develop a roll of 35mm (24exp) and a roll of 220 film together in D76. will the development time be the same?
and what about mixing different films in the same tank and same developer, will it ruin things?
phototone
Well-known
thelovecollect said:
If you are using a teeny-tiny amount of developer, such as in some of those systems that run the developing tanks horizontally on an agitator, where the developer is just a "puddle" in the tank that the film is rotated through, then you might find that if you mis-calculated the amount of developer to use, it would be inadequate. If you are developing sheet film in a small tray, and you were interleaving many sheets it is possible to have inadequate amount of developer.
However, if you are developing your rolls in a normal light-tight tank, where you fill the whole tank up with developer solution, then you will never have a problem with developer exhaustion due to the surface area of the film.
There is also no problem with developing different films all at once in the same tank of developer, as long as the developing times are consistant between films.
Sometimes I develop quite different films in the same tank, by starting with the film that needs the longest developing time, and then in the dark, putting in the film that needs shorter developing time at the appropriate point in the developing process. I keep the extra film on its reel in another light tight tank waiting for the moment I need to transfer it to the active developing tank. I turn out the lights, take the lids off, transfer the film, put the lid back on, turn on the lights and continue on.
thelovecollect
Established
phototone said:
cool, i've actually done this before with no problems, i just wanted an expert opinion on it..
phototone
Well-known
I would like to add a historical point.
In the days when b/w fllm was the standard amateur medium, most photofinisher type labs had one BIG tank of some sort of industrial b/w film developer. They developed all the films in this big tank, and usually for the same time. Not ideal, but these were amateur films.
In the days when b/w fllm was the standard amateur medium, most photofinisher type labs had one BIG tank of some sort of industrial b/w film developer. They developed all the films in this big tank, and usually for the same time. Not ideal, but these were amateur films.
Wayne R. Scott
Half fast Leica User
This may or not be helpful to those that develop only a few rolls of film over extended periods of time. If you mix your 1 gallon (3.8L) stock solution of D-76 and then seperate the solution into 4 smaller 1 qt. containers that are filled to the top and then sealed your stock solution will last longer than if you leave it in the 1 gallon container. Over time the D-76 reacts to the oxygen in the air and as you use up the 1 gallon in the container more air, thus more oxygen is allowed into the container which increases the rate of oxidation. If you are going to leave the D-76 in the one gallon container for long periods of time you can slow the oxidation considerably by applying a 5 second burst of butane (used to re-fill cigarette lighters). Butane is heavier than oxygen and will settle over the top of the D-76 insulating it from the oxygen. Butane does not react with the D-76. Common sense should prevail here of course, I would suggest not smoking when applying the butane.
Wayne
.Wayne
thelovecollect
Established
Wayne R. Scott said:
why not just use those accordian-style collapsible containers?
Wayne R. Scott
Half fast Leica User
thelovecollect said:why not just use those accordian-style collapsible containers?
You could use the collapsible containers or you could shoot more rolls of film and not have to worry about it oxidizing, or you could just let it go bad and buy some new D-76 and mix up a new batch, or you could let some one else develop your film for you.
Wayne
thelovecollect
Established
Wayne R. Scott said:
i've never had anything go bad so far with the accordians, but butane to me seems excessive to keep a $5.50 gallon of D-76 fresh...
Wayne R. Scott
Half fast Leica User
thelovecollect said:
Then my suggestion to you is do not use butane. I could care less what you use, I myself do not use butane for what it is worth.
If some one truly wants a film developer that will last over time they should use Diafine in my opinion.
Wayne
phototone
Well-known
I have been using D-76 for over 35 years. I mix up a one gallon quantity, and put it in an old Kodak plastic bottle that some other chemical came in. Been using the same old plastic bottle for 20 years. I may process one to 3 rolls per week when I am fired up about my personal work. (My professional work on film is all color E-6 transparencies). I have never had a bottle of D-76 "go bad" on me before I used it up. I do not use those accordion bottles. I do 1:1 dilution and dump the used developer after one processing run. The only thing left in the bottle is the remaining "stock" developer. If you use it up within a couple of months, and you put the lid on the bottle after you pour out what you are going to dilute and use, and you store the bottle in your climate controlled house, and you don't go in and shake the bottle every day, D-76 has an awesome shelf-life. It is one of the better choices for shelf-life in "stock" solution. A gallon (diluted 1:1) won't process hundreds of rolls, so you are not mixing up a huge quantity when you mix a gallon. So figure you use up 4 oz of stock (and 4 oz of added water to make 1:1), considering a gallon has 128 oz. you can theoretically process a maximum of 32 rolls per gallon. How long would it take you to consume 32 rolls if you are processing it yourself?
99% of the images in my online gallery here (link below) were processed in D-76 1:1 dilution.
99% of the images in my online gallery here (link below) were processed in D-76 1:1 dilution.
Last edited:
Dougg
Seasoned Member
Butane sounds a bit hazardous; I seem to recall spray-cans of (not easily flammable) nitrogen offered for this purpose, but I just keep a bucket of marbles on hand and drop enough marbles into the developer jug to take up the airspace.