Timmyjoe
Veteran
Most of us have more than one camera. So when we send one off for repair, we have another one to use. A few years ago you could pick up decent Leica M3, M2, & M4 bodies for under $1000, so having a couple/three was not a big deal. When I send one off to DAG, I have others to use.
Best,
-Tim
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
Those days are sure gone. Probably forever!
Timmyjoe
Veteran
Yeah, really not sure what happened there, but the prices for particularly M2's are thru the roof. If I didn't use mine as much, I would consider selling them for the profit. HA!!!
Best,
-Tim
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Given the scarcity of independent repair service techs and shops these days, most places worth the price for the work have turnaround times in the 12 to 16 week range. It's not like it was 25-30 years ago when there were camera repair shops all over the place. I had a Hasselblad back overhauled a few months ago ... 16 weeks. One of my Kodak Retina RFs is being serviced, time will be 13 weeks by the time I get it back. Some repairs take longer because of the scarcity of parts that might need to be found, restored, or made from scratch.
I've had DAG service and repair many a piece of Minox or Leica equipment over the years. Sometimes he's taken a while... If I really needed a particular piece of equipment, I enquired ahead whether he could get it done by the date I needed, and he has always answered up front and then met the delivery schedule we agreed upon. Same for the other shops I have worked with (including Sherry and a few others...).
So ... If you really, desperately, must have some piece of equipment and use it in situations where damage and failure can happen easily, or it happens to be old and somewhat fragile/prone to failure, be sure you have two of them. And when you have equipment to service, communicate with the service provider to set the expectations on both sides of the fence. And then, realize that the people who work on your Leica M or other film camera are human beings who sometimes make mistakes, get delayed, etc etc. So use that understanding in adjusting your expectations too.
G
"In a world of of seven-plus billion people, all but one of them is not you."
I've had DAG service and repair many a piece of Minox or Leica equipment over the years. Sometimes he's taken a while... If I really needed a particular piece of equipment, I enquired ahead whether he could get it done by the date I needed, and he has always answered up front and then met the delivery schedule we agreed upon. Same for the other shops I have worked with (including Sherry and a few others...).
So ... If you really, desperately, must have some piece of equipment and use it in situations where damage and failure can happen easily, or it happens to be old and somewhat fragile/prone to failure, be sure you have two of them. And when you have equipment to service, communicate with the service provider to set the expectations on both sides of the fence. And then, realize that the people who work on your Leica M or other film camera are human beings who sometimes make mistakes, get delayed, etc etc. So use that understanding in adjusting your expectations too.
G
"In a world of of seven-plus billion people, all but one of them is not you."
Mooshoepork
Established
Mooshoepork
Established
I’ve sent my last email. Next is disputing the payment with my credit card company. It’s been almost 3 months since Don was supposed to replace the top plate he lost with another one of similar condition.
by far the most absurd and ridiculous repair experience I’ve ever had
by far the most absurd and ridiculous repair experience I’ve ever had
Beemermark
Veteran
In one of your previous emails you stated the top plate you got back had the same serial number as the one you sent. Find it hard to believe Don would dig around for a trashed top with no serial number and then engrave with your serial number. just hard to believe.
Timmyjoe
Veteran
I would seriously doubt Don has the equipment to add serial numbers to brass top plates, and have them look like they came from Leica.
Best,
-Tim
Best,
-Tim
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
Did I miss something? I believe he's talking about an M6. The serial number would be on the hot shoe - not the topcover.
Mooshoepork
Established
You didn’t miss anything, Timmyjoe and Beemermark just don’t know what they’re talking about
I guess it’s easier to believe I’m a total moron than it is to believe Don made a mistake (a mistake he’s already made just recently in this same thread)
KM-25
Well-known
Many of these ace repair people came into vogue when these types of forums started to sing their praises and rightfully so, they did and do good work for the most part. I have sent stuff to Don, usually perfect but not always. My main Hasselblad guy has made mistakes too, all usually rectified with polite exchange.
What concerns me is that they are aging and also getting worn out, right at a time when analog repairs have to be at a 20-year high. They are overloaded, backlogged and who the hell knows if they have any apprenticeships going. I think I am ok on the Leica stuff, it seems to work well if you just use and and not abuse it or let it sit totally unused.
Now Hasselblad I feel differently about, it really does need to be maintained so I am hell bent on becoming an expert at repairing and maintaining at least the film magazines. I have a crap ton of it at this point, 6 bodies, 10 lenses and 14 backs so it only makes sense I learn how to maintain as much of it as I can.
We just can’t rely on only the highly acclaimed repair people anymore, we need diversity and we need new blood. We need people with the business acumen to source parts through 3rd party manufacturers, even if boutique. Things like pins, brackets and gears are sort of easy, springs that need a specific tension not so much.
With the price some of this gear is now fetching, I am left wondering how much higher can it go and if there is no ceiling, then when does some bright young person see the business case for doing both repairs and refurbishments that they sell for top dollar?
I suppose the concern might be how long film is available and that is a genuine one considering the price of it is going up too….
What concerns me is that they are aging and also getting worn out, right at a time when analog repairs have to be at a 20-year high. They are overloaded, backlogged and who the hell knows if they have any apprenticeships going. I think I am ok on the Leica stuff, it seems to work well if you just use and and not abuse it or let it sit totally unused.
Now Hasselblad I feel differently about, it really does need to be maintained so I am hell bent on becoming an expert at repairing and maintaining at least the film magazines. I have a crap ton of it at this point, 6 bodies, 10 lenses and 14 backs so it only makes sense I learn how to maintain as much of it as I can.
We just can’t rely on only the highly acclaimed repair people anymore, we need diversity and we need new blood. We need people with the business acumen to source parts through 3rd party manufacturers, even if boutique. Things like pins, brackets and gears are sort of easy, springs that need a specific tension not so much.
With the price some of this gear is now fetching, I am left wondering how much higher can it go and if there is no ceiling, then when does some bright young person see the business case for doing both repairs and refurbishments that they sell for top dollar?
I suppose the concern might be how long film is available and that is a genuine one considering the price of it is going up too….
Hern
Established
I decided to let it go - it did not bother me much as it was relatively trivial to me as I am unconcerned with the aesthetic condition of the camera. The M4-P is working and smooth and I am happy with that and it will accompany me on many more walks. I sympathize with your predicament though, hopefully you get something worked out.
raydm6
Yay! Cameras! 🙈🙉🙊┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘ [◉"]
I just re-read DAG's FAQ. Got a chuckle from this one:
I'm sure he meant camera questions in general (calling just to shoot the breeze); not those relating to repairs. Also, curious if his wife is into cameras or he meant that as a general comment about discussing status of the camera repair business with his wife.
I'm sure he meant camera questions in general (calling just to shoot the breeze); not those relating to repairs. Also, curious if his wife is into cameras or he meant that as a general comment about discussing status of the camera repair business with his wife.
Mooshoepork
Established
Well, to finish this off my camera finally arrived back with a replacement top cover.
I never did get a response to any of my emails but it turned up the other day (after a month in the postal system apparently), insured for $45.
Included in the package was my original note saying I would arrange DHL for the return trip, which like all of the emails was ignored.
the quality of work is fine, but there’s no chance I will be recommending or using DAG in the future.
This gear is too expensive to deal with the absolute black hole of communication and roulette the job will even be completed properly
I never did get a response to any of my emails but it turned up the other day (after a month in the postal system apparently), insured for $45.
Included in the package was my original note saying I would arrange DHL for the return trip, which like all of the emails was ignored.
the quality of work is fine, but there’s no chance I will be recommending or using DAG in the future.
This gear is too expensive to deal with the absolute black hole of communication and roulette the job will even be completed properly
Andy Kibber
Well-known
Mooshoepork - I'm glad to hear you finally got your camera back after this bizarre saga. The only Leica repair person I've used since Gerry at Kindermann retired is Youxin Ye. His communication is great. No problems at all.
Mooshoepork
Established
I’m honestly pretty stunned the experience was this awful.
Youxin would’ve been the ticket but I believe it needed some electrical work he doesn’t do.
The camera came back working so in the end he’d done the job, but didn’t even give an apology or real ownership of the problem.
He wouldn’t even be aware the camera was delivered at this end…doubt he cares either.
Anyway, never again.
BWF
Established
My two cents (FWIW YMMV etc): I’ve had two good experiences with DAG and would not hesitate to send something to him again. But I know it might take a few weeks more than his estimate and that’s ok with me. I’m just a hobbyist. Youxin has also done great work on a few cameras and lenses and I send stuff to him too. I just got a iiic serviced by Pro Camera and it took 2 months for $125 - very happy with the work and they are responsive. Their technician called me with a question about replacing some corroded parts and was extremely easy to work with. I am sure there are other great repair shops out there and I hope there will always be a bunch of good options!
Mooshoepork
Established
Mooshoepork
Established
After all of that I still have a purple slow light leak on frames that have been sitting a while.
Most camera repair shops in the world are gone. Those that still take work are over-run. Most of those are cutting back on the type of equipment that they will work on. Youxin works 7 days a week and 12 hours a day, and has cut back on the types of cameras and lenses that he will take on.
If you don't like the work being done by the few places still taking on repair work, buy a camera that you can repair yourself. Learn how to use that camera, and learn to repair it yourself. The day is coming when DAG and Sherry will call it a career, Youxin is already over-run and sets limits on what he will work on.
Thinking about camera repair shops versus the people I use for new projects: I pay time and materials on contract, easily $100/hr for my mechanical engineer. How ever long it takes, times $100/hr and the cost of whatever is needed to complete the project.
This past December- first time in two years that I bought a lens and restored it. I had 120hrs of use/lose vacation, took a week off.
8 Hours into this lens, and used glass from another Sonnar to fix it. That would be a $1000 job, good thing I do not charge myself.
Youxin charges flat rate for repairs, can do this by sticking with known entities. Electronics in cameras- can be cans-of-worms. The Leica M6 is notorious for light leaks. Another can-of-worms.
Fedka used to do CLA on Jupiters, but would not adjust them to the Leica standard. I was told there is no interest on their part in doing this, that it was outside of the normal repair. Fedka used "old school" repair people, usually retired and working out of there house. Now-
- NEW: Repair and Service
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I still get inquiries about adjusting Jupiters: I cannot find anybody that will take on this work that I can refer people to. They are too busy. They would also have to charge over $100 for the work- and some of the Jupiters are cans-of-worms. A couple hours required to undo past errors. The last favor I did- took two hours to undo the "repair" made to it by the former owner, and another hour to actually fix the problem.
If you don't like the work being done by the few places still taking on repair work, buy a camera that you can repair yourself. Learn how to use that camera, and learn to repair it yourself. The day is coming when DAG and Sherry will call it a career, Youxin is already over-run and sets limits on what he will work on.
Thinking about camera repair shops versus the people I use for new projects: I pay time and materials on contract, easily $100/hr for my mechanical engineer. How ever long it takes, times $100/hr and the cost of whatever is needed to complete the project.
This past December- first time in two years that I bought a lens and restored it. I had 120hrs of use/lose vacation, took a week off.
8 Hours into this lens, and used glass from another Sonnar to fix it. That would be a $1000 job, good thing I do not charge myself.
Youxin charges flat rate for repairs, can do this by sticking with known entities. Electronics in cameras- can be cans-of-worms. The Leica M6 is notorious for light leaks. Another can-of-worms.
Fedka used to do CLA on Jupiters, but would not adjust them to the Leica standard. I was told there is no interest on their part in doing this, that it was outside of the normal repair. Fedka used "old school" repair people, usually retired and working out of there house. Now-
- NEW: Repair and Service
There are no products available in this category.
I still get inquiries about adjusting Jupiters: I cannot find anybody that will take on this work that I can refer people to. They are too busy. They would also have to charge over $100 for the work- and some of the Jupiters are cans-of-worms. A couple hours required to undo past errors. The last favor I did- took two hours to undo the "repair" made to it by the former owner, and another hour to actually fix the problem.