Question about RF viewfinders...

[italy74]

Hi guys,

we all know that looking through RF viewfinder is easy when you're up to 50 / 75 mm but after that limit, RF design takes its toll, limiting your 85 / 90 / 135 view in very little inner frames.
Do you think an "additional", external or built-in, magnifying lens could be a solution there? Just imagine a simple cone united to the body via a shoe or a screw / bajonet mount which enlarges both the existing view to a much larger one, while keeping the ratio between the 28 grid lines and the 85, or a shift-on-demand lens which does the same (even if it would be worse since it would have the same size of the viewfinder, more or less, while an external magnifying cone could be definitely larger) ?

Is it only a thought or could be a reality?

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Dino,

There's always the 'spectacles' approach, as on the 135/2.8.

The problem I'd see with an eyepiece magnifier -- assuming it's possible, which I am not sure is the case -- would be poking yourself in the eye with it.

I can't help feeling that traditional auxiliary finders are probably an easier approach.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[payasam]

Dino, some of the Leitz 135 mm lenses could be had with "spectacles" or "goggles".

 

[ljsegil]

There are several solutions to the problem you pose that are already in existence. At least Nikon, pretty sure Zeiss, and I believe some of the other rangefinder manufacturers (Linhof for LF), made variable magnification finders that fit in the hot shoe of the camera and could be adjusted to the focal length of the lens in use, both magnification and approximate field of view. I'm working from memory, but I think they were available in focal lengths form either 28-105mm or 35 to 135mm. I don't recall whether they were parallex corrected. They appear on the Bay occasionally, usually when you are not looking for them. There are also the usual single focal length external viewfinders available in almost any focal length, usually of very high quality and with brightlines or mechanical movements for parallex correction. I have and use finders for 50mm (Voigtlander, I don't enjoy using the built in viewfinder on the Contax IIa so decided to give it a try), a 75mm Voigtlander finder for the Summicron when I use it on the ZI, which of course has no 75mm framelines built in (actually a very nice way to use the lens as it appropriately magnifies as well as frames the image, as opposed to just framing the image without magnification as a rangefinder's own VF/RF does, and eliminates my need to keep flipping from the 50 to the 85mm framelines to approximate the 75's field of view when using the ZI), and finally I use a 135mm parallex corrected Leitz finder with the Apo-Telyt (no framelines beyond 85mm on the ZI).
I guess I must just like using external viewfinders (have the usual assortment for the wides also, all Zeiss as they are simply superb compared to the other makes), I don't too much mind flipping from the rangefinder to compose in the viewfinder, although the situation is of course much more difficult if my subject is moving much at all, then being certain of maintaining focus while composing through the external viewfinder is very problematic. Of course,YMMV, I think it really is a matter of personal taste and shooting style. I'm kind of a sedentary type myself, and tend to use my ZI for more sedentary subject matter (growing grass, that general ilk).
I did try the Leica magnifying diopter while I still had my M7, but for reasons I do not completely understand I did not find it that helpful, it didn't seem to improve my focusing with the longer lenses (and nothing helps my composition) and unlike using an external viewfinder when your native VF/RF is undisturbed, I had to remove the diopter to visualize or shoot any lens of 50mm or less (0.85 VF on my M7). With the external finders you can use them or not for any shot and your basic camera function is unchanged, with the diopter you're kind of stuck with only longer focal lengths until you take the time to remove it.
Anyway, my lengthy two cents, which may not even have much of anything to do with your original question, though I hope I have not obfuscated the waters too much.
Best,
LJS

 

[VinceC]

Nikon (and Canon P) partly solved this with a 1:1 lifesize finder. The 85/90 frame is quite large, 105 very usable, and 135mm remains workable.

The challenge is the wide-angles, which is why the SP resorted to a separate wide-angle finder.

 

[mfogiel]

I actually have a 1.33x megaperls magnifier attached to my ZI when I want to shoot the 90mm lens. This however does not solve the question entirely, as the resulting frame size is still smaller than e.g. the 50mm frame without any magnification. For me, 50mm is the real limit of the RF world, and I like to use the FM3A or FE2 with the 85/1.4 or 100/2 Planars when I need that type of fl.

 

[Bnack]

seems to me that a possible future solution to this... at least in the digital world would be live view. I realize it's heartbreaking to think of people sooting RFs while not even looking through the RF, but I could see where if you had a 135 on your camera, you could use a live view function to get a closer look at your frame. But that also depends on whether or not digital RFs have any real staying power in the current market... we'll see.

 

[italy74]

Hem..
not sure if I understood correctly. I'm not meaning to use magnified viewfinders as the ones on Leica (you can use different .58, .72 and .85x which however have the cons to be either against who wears glasses or limit too much the surrounding of what you're seeing). My suggestion doesn't need any parallax compensation, since it just enlarge to 3x (for instance) what is already corrected in the present viewfinder. If you have in mind a simple lupe probably now you get the point. You see the same slide, but entirely and much larger. I don't think it should be too difficult to realize it. But I admit I don't know any "spectacles" or "googles" so I could be wrong.

 

[ferider]

Hi Dino,

Leica made a magnifier like you describe for use with their 90/4 Macro Elmar, see:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/382642-REG/Leica_12531_Angle_Viewfinder_M.html

It gives more magnification than the typical 1.25 magnification accessories.

Other than that, try an M3 once, the 90mm framelines are almost comparable to 50mm framelines on an M6 or ZI.

Roland.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Hi Dino,

Leica made a magnifier like you describe for use with their 90/4 Macro Elmar, see:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/382642-REG/Leica_12531_Angle_Viewfinder_M.html

It gives more magnification than the typical 1.25 magnification accessories.

Roland.

Dear Roland,

No, that was a close-focusing device (I borrowed one). Not the same thing at all, even though it looked quite like the 'spectacles' on a 135/2.8, which were magnifiers and enlarged the effective RF base as well. It was actually more akin to the close-up attachents for a dual-range Summicron, though unlike the Summicron, where the extension was built into the main focusing mount, the 90/4 adapter also increased the lens extension.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[Palaeoboy]

I think your the one that has it wrong Roger, he wasnt referring to the macro adapter for the Macro elmar but a special angled magnifier. (If you click on the link you will see what he meant)

 

[Roger Hicks]

My apologies for my ignorance; the link didn't work, and I was unaware of the thing in question.

Cheers,

Roger