question about ZI misalignment..

[italy74]

Hi guys
we often heard about this kind of issue (probably the most relevant in the ZI camp) but how do you realize that? It's something you can notice BEFORE shooting or you see later, once that prints are out? (you see pictures focused somewhere else, for example) how exactly happens that you notice this misalignment?
Sorry for the silly question but if I'd ever afford a ZI I'd like to know in time what's going on and what's not working.
Thanks.

 

[mirrored]

Some things:

ZI have a large finder ocular. Vertical alignment of RF is depended on point of eye: if your eye is located upper or lower from the middle, you get a misalignment. Double picture is most visible in the middle and to that point must RF calibration done. I haven't find horisontal movement of eyepoint have any influence to horisontal RF alignment.

 

[john_s]

A rangefinder can be out in several ways. Firstly, and this is obvious in viewing, is that the rf patch is a bit above or below the main image. This might not affect focus accuracy most of the time, since you can still align the images in the left-right dimension. But it does make it a little more difficult to judge the exact focus, and is annoying.

Secondly, when a lens is focused to its infinity stop, the rf patch and main image should be perfectly aligned. If they're not, there is probably some misalignment. But it's best to check with several lenses that are known (or at least tentatively considered) to be good. Some abused lenses can have some odd damage to their innards.

Thirdly, even if the above are ok, there can be misfocusing at closer distances. The Leica M cameras have an adjustment for that (the eccentric cam) and some cameras don't (e.g. the Mamiya rangefinders as far as I know). I don't know about the Zeiss.

It's best to check with some fine grain film, tripod and suitable target. If it's a little bit out, I find it easier to compensate in use instead of having endless adjustments performed. In my experience, it's very difficult to get a Leica M body and several new Leica lenses all performing perfectly. Once again, I don't know about the Zeiss.

 

[italy74]

Secondly, when a lens is focused to its infinity stop, the rf patch and main image should be perfectly aligned. If they're not, there is probably some misalignment.

Ok, for infinity / far distances it was exactly what I was asking for, it means you feel something is wrong already BEFORE shooting.. Thanks!

 

[italy74]

Vertical alignment of RF is depended on point of eye: if your eye is located upper or lower from the middle, you get a misalignment.

It means there could be also a VERTICAL misalignment beyond the one in the sense of depth of field (closer or farther from the subject) ? Could you please explain it a bit more? Thanks.

 

[awilder]

For those that tend to be fussy about rf alignments, the M5 and earlier camera were the easiest for a user to adjust to the 'nth degree followed by the M4-2 and all later Ms. Not sure about the ZI but no one's published any guidelines so I suspect it's far less user friendly like most modern rf's on the market today.

 

[mirrored]

Vertical alignment of RF is depended on point of eye: if your eye is located upper or lower from the middle, you get a misalignment.

It means there could be also a VERTICAL misalignment beyond the one in the sense of depth of field (closer or farther from the subject) ? Could you please explain it a bit more? Thanks.

Yes. A vertical misalignment have influence to focusing accurity in a secondary way. It means that it's just annoying when douple picture can not reach sharp look even when you have accurate focus distance. If you have some simple vertical line in your subject where you focus, it's OK, but all other situations misalignment exist.

This is the same issue:

Firstly, and this is obvious in viewing, is that the rf patch is a bit above or below the main image. This might not affect focus accuracy most of the time, since you can still align the images in the left-right dimension. But it does make it a little more difficult to judge the exact focus, and is annoying.

Yes, and in many situations you are not sure have you in focus or not. When douple picture disappear (they get alignment - two picture join together exactly), you can focus quick and pleasant way.


(I have my signature now. 😛 )
.

 

[mirrored]

One example to the importance for a vertical alignment. Try focusing to the wrinkled aluminium foil surface!

 

[mfogiel]

The real point about the ZI, is that the RF is so accurate, that in my experience, it is pointless to try to align it by yourself. I have sent mine to Zeiss and it came back perfect. I sent an M7 (0.85) to Leica, and it came back "almost" perfect, i.e. I still get an error of 1,5 cm at 1m distance, but you just learn to live with this. The rf mechanism with a long base is incredibly sensitive to calibration, so after having tried local authorized repair shops (Milan) and DIY, I have decided, that for shorter base rf's like Bessa or Minolta CLE, DIY is sufficient, for the ZI and Leica, it is best to send it to the factory if necessary.

 

[monopix]

no one's published any guidelines...

Suggest you check out this http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66505

 

[john_s]

....... I sent an M7 (0.85) to Leica, and it came back "almost" perfect, i.e. I still get an error of 1,5 cm at 1m distance, but you just learn to live with this.....

Is this with all of your lenses, or just the one you use with this body? And if so, did you send the lens to Leica as well? I've spoken to my local Leica distributor (in Australia) about some lenses focusing perfectly and some not with the same body (all lenses bought new, incidentally) and although they have been helpful they have told me that the only sure solution is to send everything to the factory and have them calibrated together. I have just learned to live with the situation, since my favourite lens (50/1.4 ASPH) focusses perfectly with both bodies (old M6 and M6ttl 0.85). I just make adjustments when taking the photos (step forward a certain amount, different for each lens except the 50).