Ken Smith
Why yes Ma'am - it folds
I have a nice Perkeo 2 with working film counter and before I run my first roll through it, I'd like to know if there any films that develop a spacing problem with the Perkeo's frame counter. Especially since reading the owner's manual and seeing the emphasis on using a thick cored take up spool. Any films that are consistantly off due to their spool design? The films I'm looking at using are Fuji Acros 100, Kodak TMax 400, Kodak Ektar, and maybe some Fuji Reala as I come across it.
Also I have a film question regarding matching the look of Neopan 400. I'm not a fan of the big grainy look and I missed the 120 boat on this film. Is there another film that has the sharp, fine grain, look of Neo 400? TMax a good substitute? I plan on developing it myself.
TiA
Also I have a film question regarding matching the look of Neopan 400. I'm not a fan of the big grainy look and I missed the 120 boat on this film. Is there another film that has the sharp, fine grain, look of Neo 400? TMax a good substitute? I plan on developing it myself.
TiA
Last edited:
kuzano
Veteran
Load tight and check the ruby window often.....
Load tight and check the ruby window often.....
My problems with film spacing on 120 roll film have most often been resolved by having the film tight across the film opening when closing the door. 120 film has a nasty habit of not winding tight on the roll, unless it's started tight. Can't speak to any difference in the dimension of the spindle on 120 spool, but I think that's a mythical response to the real problem.
I don't like the Perkeo II. I've had two and feel the count/double shot prevention is poorly designed and weak. Both of mine failed and I am neither abusive or careless with my cameras.
Now let me restate the above... I really do like the Perkeo's, after stripping out the count gears and running them like a Perkeo I. Count frames with the ruby windows. The advantage... you can't have frame spacing problems if you see the frame number in the ruby window... totally disregarding any conjecture about film spool diameter.
Sorry, but my comments are based on experience with a ton of old folders, on which I found very few reliable film count stops. In fact the ruby window is the key. It does not lie about where the film is in the camera and your whole post hinges on that window. Trust it before you trust the count mechanism.... just open the window and check for the number. If you don't see it, or you see it considerably off center, your framing is moving.
Check the window, and foremost, close the back door on a tight film load.
I do have a Perkeo II that works perfectly and delivers very nice images..... The gears in the top are gone. It's best features are the Color Skopar lens and the Synchro Compur shutter. Far better than the Perkeo I with the Vaskar lens and Prontor shutter. So, it's as reliable on film transport as a Perkeo I, but gives the image quality of a Perkeo II.
Oh, and if you do have a problem with the count mechanism, I do not think you will find someone who will attempt a repair. The camera tech's I have communicated with who are known for old folders will not attempt repairs on film stop/count gearing.
Load tight and check the ruby window often.....
My problems with film spacing on 120 roll film have most often been resolved by having the film tight across the film opening when closing the door. 120 film has a nasty habit of not winding tight on the roll, unless it's started tight. Can't speak to any difference in the dimension of the spindle on 120 spool, but I think that's a mythical response to the real problem.
I don't like the Perkeo II. I've had two and feel the count/double shot prevention is poorly designed and weak. Both of mine failed and I am neither abusive or careless with my cameras.
Now let me restate the above... I really do like the Perkeo's, after stripping out the count gears and running them like a Perkeo I. Count frames with the ruby windows. The advantage... you can't have frame spacing problems if you see the frame number in the ruby window... totally disregarding any conjecture about film spool diameter.
Sorry, but my comments are based on experience with a ton of old folders, on which I found very few reliable film count stops. In fact the ruby window is the key. It does not lie about where the film is in the camera and your whole post hinges on that window. Trust it before you trust the count mechanism.... just open the window and check for the number. If you don't see it, or you see it considerably off center, your framing is moving.
Check the window, and foremost, close the back door on a tight film load.
I do have a Perkeo II that works perfectly and delivers very nice images..... The gears in the top are gone. It's best features are the Color Skopar lens and the Synchro Compur shutter. Far better than the Perkeo I with the Vaskar lens and Prontor shutter. So, it's as reliable on film transport as a Perkeo I, but gives the image quality of a Perkeo II.
Oh, and if you do have a problem with the count mechanism, I do not think you will find someone who will attempt a repair. The camera tech's I have communicated with who are known for old folders will not attempt repairs on film stop/count gearing.
Last edited:
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
It does not have the regular spacing problems of folders with a advance cam counter a la Super Ikonta. As the counter is a roller driven counter that measures the film pulled past the gate, it is immune to film strength and spool size issues - provided that it still works...
It has a metal roller with roughened ends, and slips more easily than the rubber rollers on modern medium format cameras. But on the other hand that means that there is no rubber roller to crumble away, and slippage will cause wide spacing and wasted film rather than the overlap you'll get from many other folders. The nasty thing about its counter is a tendency to jam. If that happens, you'll have to take the film out in the darkroom, and the camera is useless until you fix or tear out the counter gears. More likely the latter - in typical folder fashion its bearing pins are riveted, so that there is not much to fix about it if it got bent.
It has a metal roller with roughened ends, and slips more easily than the rubber rollers on modern medium format cameras. But on the other hand that means that there is no rubber roller to crumble away, and slippage will cause wide spacing and wasted film rather than the overlap you'll get from many other folders. The nasty thing about its counter is a tendency to jam. If that happens, you'll have to take the film out in the darkroom, and the camera is useless until you fix or tear out the counter gears. More likely the latter - in typical folder fashion its bearing pins are riveted, so that there is not much to fix about it if it got bent.
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
I had a Perkeo I and a Perkeo II. Did not have any problem with spacing in either (if you don't count being unable to read anything through the ruby window in poor light and darkness with the PI!
I used a retired Voigtlander trained service tech here in Sydney and I believe he could fix anything starting with a "V". Maybe even a Volkswagen. Not sure if he's still doing it though.
I used a retired Voigtlander trained service tech here in Sydney and I believe he could fix anything starting with a "V". Maybe even a Volkswagen. Not sure if he's still doing it though.
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
Forgot your question about the film. TMax or Delta 400 are probably closest. Bear in mind that any one film is probably not going to give an exact match but you can do a lot with different developers and development times and agitation methods so don't give up if the first result doesn't fully meet expectation.
I tend to use Rodinal 1+50 for ISO100 films but find the grain a bit excessive for my taste with ISO400 films like HP5+ or TX400. For "new" generation emulsions like Delta and TMax I use the recommended developers like Ilford's DDX but lately have also been using Prescysol with very good results. It's available from Photographers formulary in the USA.
The old standards of D76 and ID-11 are good for general purpose use too but they have mixing and storage issues compared to one shot liquid developers.
I tend to use Rodinal 1+50 for ISO100 films but find the grain a bit excessive for my taste with ISO400 films like HP5+ or TX400. For "new" generation emulsions like Delta and TMax I use the recommended developers like Ilford's DDX but lately have also been using Prescysol with very good results. It's available from Photographers formulary in the USA.
The old standards of D76 and ID-11 are good for general purpose use too but they have mixing and storage issues compared to one shot liquid developers.
Mablo
Well-known
You can check the frame counter and the spacing at least to some extent by running a dymmy film through the camera (I use just the backpaper) and checking the ruby window as you go. I don't have Perkeo but I have a Bessa with a similar type of mechanism.
Ken Smith
Why yes Ma'am - it folds
I will have to get a dummy roll of expired film or something elcheapo and test the counter under use. I have several rolls of Acros 100, but don't wanna waste it for something like this. I did notice that there is some play with the take up spool since the slots on it are bigger than the advance fitting.
I have finger rolled the roller through all the frame countings several times and it advances fine. This camera has had a Jurgen CLA in the past year. I know from what I read here - it could be either a good thing or bad. But I will keep my eye on frame spacing via the red window.
I wonder if placing a thin rubber tubing over the roller shaft would prevent slippage during film advance.
As for developing, I thought I would start with Xtol or T-Max and see how those go.
Thanks
I have finger rolled the roller through all the frame countings several times and it advances fine. This camera has had a Jurgen CLA in the past year. I know from what I read here - it could be either a good thing or bad. But I will keep my eye on frame spacing via the red window.
I wonder if placing a thin rubber tubing over the roller shaft would prevent slippage during film advance.
As for developing, I thought I would start with Xtol or T-Max and see how those go.
Thanks
antonandreas
Established
Why not thicken a take up spool? Use some electrical tape, cut into two thin strips of the same length, and wrap one around at the top and the other at the bottom. May take a roll or two to figure out the needed length, but it definitely should work. Just make sure to ask for the spool back if you develop it at a lab!
Ken Smith
Why yes Ma'am - it folds
Nope Chippy - Just Perkeo 2. Sort of an adopted little brother for my Bessa II while Fallis is piddling, oops sorry - doing a CLA with it. The Perkeo is a very nice well made folder. By the way, March 4th will be the one year anniversary for Fallis having my Bessa for a simple CLA. I think I will send him an anniversary card for the occassion - that might get his attention. :bang:
Ken Smith
Why yes Ma'am - it folds
No longer fuming since I found out I'm not the only one in this boat. Someone else here has a camera with the gentleman in question for a CLA - since April. And like me - with no end in sight. At least it will give me some practice time with a folder and developing film again after decades of not doing it.
My plan with the auto count is not to mess with it till the roll is used up and periodically checking the window to see if all is going well. I could tell it won't budge until it's supposed to. My philosophy is if it don't budge - don't force it - perhaps it ain't supposed to - yet.
Last edited:
MkII
Newbie
Shutter counter stuck
Shutter counter stuck
Hi all,
My Perkeo II (newly found in a box of many old cameras) seems to be stuck going back and forth between 12 and the red on the counter when I flick the lever. Does anyone know if there is an obvious way to get it to go back to 1?
Thanks, Mark
Shutter counter stuck
Hi all,
My Perkeo II (newly found in a box of many old cameras) seems to be stuck going back and forth between 12 and the red on the counter when I flick the lever. Does anyone know if there is an obvious way to get it to go back to 1?
Thanks, Mark
FrankS
Registered User
Need to open the camera back, rotate the film roller and advance the film transport, repeat until you pass 12 on the counter.
MkII
Newbie
Thanks Frank. I've tried everything I can to make that happen, but i get into the red, even seeing a glimpse of white on the other side, but as soon as I flip the lever to the right it goes straight back to 12 again. I take it this is not normal?
FrankS
Registered User
There's film in my Perkeo right now so I can't check it.
Maybe this is helpful? http://www.cameramanuals.org/voigtlander_pdf/voigtlander_perkeo_ii.pdf
Maybe this is helpful? http://www.cameramanuals.org/voigtlander_pdf/voigtlander_perkeo_ii.pdf
MkII
Newbie
Working again
Working again
I took the top plate off and had a look. First I had to turn the counter wheel a little clockwise. Winding on and firing through all 12 again got me back to the same problem of being stuck in red/12 so I turned the wheel again and went through again. Something must have happened to free a piece of the mechanism as when I went through the numbers yet again, it got to the end then sprung back to red/white again, with the lever putting it to one. I assume this is normal as I have gone right through a few more times with no problems.
Using the mechanism without the top plate on is revealing - the need to depress the shutter as far as possible is made plain as it is only in the last millimetre of movement that the ratchet for the film advance wheel moves out of the way (a millimetre that doesn't feel right, given the pressure needed on my example, but which is vital).
Working again
I took the top plate off and had a look. First I had to turn the counter wheel a little clockwise. Winding on and firing through all 12 again got me back to the same problem of being stuck in red/12 so I turned the wheel again and went through again. Something must have happened to free a piece of the mechanism as when I went through the numbers yet again, it got to the end then sprung back to red/white again, with the lever putting it to one. I assume this is normal as I have gone right through a few more times with no problems.
Using the mechanism without the top plate on is revealing - the need to depress the shutter as far as possible is made plain as it is only in the last millimetre of movement that the ratchet for the film advance wheel moves out of the way (a millimetre that doesn't feel right, given the pressure needed on my example, but which is vital).