maddoc
... likes film again.
Reading this, I start to wonder how the famous guys (HCB, Winogrand, Brassai, Kertesz,...) got their photos without AE ...
(I have used a Hexar RF for a while, but found AE not very useful in critical light situations and exposure lock be somewhat cumbersome ...)
ChrisN
Striving
I don't think anyone is suggesting that it is impossible to make good photos without the M7's AE, but some of us are not afraid to admit we are not good at judging exposure by eye, and find AE ok.
I'd like to try the M7, but for now I rely on my OM2 for situations where I want AE. It's ok most of the time (its guesses are consistently better than mine).
mirrored
Established
I don't know how M7 AE-lock work, but with my Zeiss Ikon I use always AE with locking button. Point and lock, then point and shoot. Very reasonable way of using AE. You deside your exposure by choosing metered area.
ZI stay locked about 20 seconds after pressing the button - and you get further 20 sec after shooting, and after cocking too. Pressing the button during locked stage release locking.
ZI stay locked about 20 seconds after pressing the button - and you get further 20 sec after shooting, and after cocking too. Pressing the button during locked stage release locking.
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kazeonrff
Member
I spend the time taken to guess light or turn the dial on the top to channel into my framing thoughts and wondering how i can snap that certain street shot while still maintaining a low profile presence.
Here in Singapore the people are not very welcome to locals and their photography. They get the feeling it's always for some sort of internet blackmail or the like. Nothing good to come out of it, at least. It's a total opposite for tourists. Non-government places which normally ban photography closes one eye.
There are the stories of local photogs getting splashed by a bucket of water or being confronted for a good talking to. Not pleasant.
Anyway, i shoot on an R2a and it is permanently set to AE. I only compensate for trickier lighting situations or when i want my shot to be slightly darker and moody, or the opposite. 2 stops back and forth is enough to create a mood without overly exposing or underexposing on B&W film. Slides will probably be limited to 1/2 stop compensation unless absolutely backlit.
What's important is the final image.
Maybe people might ask if you had a tripod or which shutter speed it was taken it, but you don't see anyone asking if it was shot on AE or not. Unless asking which mode you normally shoot on.
Here in Singapore the people are not very welcome to locals and their photography. They get the feeling it's always for some sort of internet blackmail or the like. Nothing good to come out of it, at least. It's a total opposite for tourists. Non-government places which normally ban photography closes one eye.
There are the stories of local photogs getting splashed by a bucket of water or being confronted for a good talking to. Not pleasant.
Anyway, i shoot on an R2a and it is permanently set to AE. I only compensate for trickier lighting situations or when i want my shot to be slightly darker and moody, or the opposite. 2 stops back and forth is enough to create a mood without overly exposing or underexposing on B&W film. Slides will probably be limited to 1/2 stop compensation unless absolutely backlit.
What's important is the final image.
Maybe people might ask if you had a tripod or which shutter speed it was taken it, but you don't see anyone asking if it was shot on AE or not. Unless asking which mode you normally shoot on.
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maddoc
... likes film again.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that it is impossible to make good photos without the M7's AE, but some of us are not afraid to admit we are not good at judging exposure by eye, and find AE ok.
My point was that for fast (!) street shooting I find AE quite contra-productive and often not very useful. Imaging an interesting scene (e.g. a kissing couple) in strong backlight and you have only parts of a second to get the shot before they notice you and your camera, will you start dialing in exposure corrections or fiddle with AE lock ?
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I'm a bit with Gabor here ... in fact I can't really seem to get my head around AE at all and definitely find it a little counter intuative. Different strokes for different folks I guess but messing around with an exposure compensation dial in tricky lighting trips me up every time!
[edit] ... of course though when you think about what a pain the compensation dial is to use on the M7 is it any wonder it probably rarely gets used!
[edit] ... of course though when you think about what a pain the compensation dial is to use on the M7 is it any wonder it probably rarely gets used!
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ChrisN
Striving
For myself, I would probably fail with either camera. I would have to fiddle with either the exposure comp dial on the OM2, or the aperture ring on the rangefinder to achieve the right exposure. I lack the level of skill you describe.
If it was a real kiss they wouldn't notice me fumbling with my camera.
If it was a real kiss they wouldn't notice me fumbling with my camera.
taxi38
Taxi Driver
Have many years experience guessing exposures on various leica bodies,but 95% of that has been with black and white film,its really easy,dont give yourself too much credit,Half a stop or even a stop out is easily recoverable.Now colour is a whole different thing and if you can guesstimate your way reliably with kodachrome then your a much better man than me.Im starting to like the idea of colour and an M7 to go with it............Neil
maddoc
... likes film again.
It seems two different terms got confused, "Auto Exposure" and "Exposure Measurement".
In my case, I really do like exposure meters (or "Exposure Measurement") not only for color but also BW film. In fact, I just recently bought an M6 again to have an on-board meter (... and being spoiled by the M5) and also a metered prism for my Hasselblad. When I have any doubt about correct exposure (and enough time), I use the exposure meter.
But... I am just not a big fan of "Auto Exposure", though.
In my case, I really do like exposure meters (or "Exposure Measurement") not only for color but also BW film. In fact, I just recently bought an M6 again to have an on-board meter (... and being spoiled by the M5) and also a metered prism for my Hasselblad. When I have any doubt about correct exposure (and enough time), I use the exposure meter.
But... I am just not a big fan of "Auto Exposure", though.
Michiel Fokkema
Michiel Fokkema
I'm a bit with Gabor here ... in fact I can't really seem to get my head around AE at all and definitely find it a little counter intuitive. Different strokes for different folks I guess but messing around with an exposure compensation dial in tricky lighting trips me up every time!
[edit] ... of course though when you think about what a pain the compensation dial is to use on the M7 is it any wonder it probably rarely gets used!
I never use the compensation dial. It's useless.
The M7 meter is semi spot. With the AE lock it is easy and for me much faster to meter on a specific part and recompose then to set the meter manually. You can also lock the exposure and then open or close the aperture. It still is faster then do it manually. At least for me.
With manual I also tend to change the aperture instead of the speed. With AE I much more keep the aperture constant and the camera will change the speed. For me that's better too.
I also owned the Hexar RF and on that camera the AE lock was for me much more difficult to operate. Too delicate. On the M7 it is much more clear.
HCB might have liked AE in his days when it was available. One can never suggest that HCB didn't need it when it wasn't there. Just think of all the shots he might have missed because of wrong exposure
taxi38
Taxi Driver
A long time ago I had a contax 139 I think it was,it had an ae lock button and was a delight to use.I consider this to be the same as manual exposure as I am dictating to the camera not the camera to me,just a whole lot faster.............Neil.
Tim Gray
Well-known
I mostly use my M7 with a hand meter. When the light is consistent, I find this method to be much more accurate and faster. Meter once, and don't worry about it again.
However, when the light is changing a lot, or I know hand metering won't work so well, say indoors where lighting changes depending on where you're standing, I use AE. Of course, I try to be aware of when something might throw the metering off and adjust accordingly.
However, when the light is changing a lot, or I know hand metering won't work so well, say indoors where lighting changes depending on where you're standing, I use AE. Of course, I try to be aware of when something might throw the metering off and adjust accordingly.
Fred
Feline Great
It depends on the scene. Most street scenes and landscapes I prefer to set the aperture and use hyperfocal, certainly for the quicker shots I'll use AE.
For those difficult lighting conditions I'll use it manually and guess the exposure.
Gererally the exposure the M7 meter has proven very accurate when using slide film. For me it's not that often that I'll choose shutter speed over aperture so AE on the M7 works well.
For those difficult lighting conditions I'll use it manually and guess the exposure.
Gererally the exposure the M7 meter has proven very accurate when using slide film. For me it's not that often that I'll choose shutter speed over aperture so AE on the M7 works well.
TEZillman
Well-known
I'm another who uses the AE all of the time with the M7. I do recognize that the meter can be fooled and, when I recognize that compenstion is needed, I find an alternative to meter on, lock the meter by pushing down the shutter button part way, recompose and shoot. I also bracket shots. I find this approach far easier and faster than using the manual approach on the M7 or using my all manual CL.
I like AE, as I think if the rig has an internal meter it might as well have AE as a feature too. I still judge what the meter is doing against common sense, and watch the scene for its potential to fool the meter. But it sure does speed the process especially when the light is changing.
A case in point, many years ago in downtown Seattle there was a political protest gathering on a street corner near the Pike Place Market. Speakers would harrangue the crowd from a small pedestal. I was snapping with a Spotmatic with 85mm and my Leica M2 with 35. One heckler irked a speaker to the point the speaker leapt off into the crowd after him. As they slugged it out, the fight moved into the covered market area. I quickly cranked the lens open 3 stops to compensate, but this wasn't enough and the Tri-X was underexposed. I would have metered had there been time. THAT is when I could have used AE, and I've kept it in mind since.
A case in point, many years ago in downtown Seattle there was a political protest gathering on a street corner near the Pike Place Market. Speakers would harrangue the crowd from a small pedestal. I was snapping with a Spotmatic with 85mm and my Leica M2 with 35. One heckler irked a speaker to the point the speaker leapt off into the crowd after him. As they slugged it out, the fight moved into the covered market area. I quickly cranked the lens open 3 stops to compensate, but this wasn't enough and the Tri-X was underexposed. I would have metered had there been time. THAT is when I could have used AE, and I've kept it in mind since.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
That is just where the AE can be faster in my mind. To point at something to place the exposure for what you want to expose for, lock and then swing up (or down, or over) to compose and shoot. This method does have drawbacks if one wants to shoot several frames in a row of something other than a young couple locked together on a bench, but it surely is faster than having to change shutter speed dial on the MP and then compose (for me). Especially when one is used to choosing DOF first, the M7 type of AE can be pretty darn fast.
maddoc
... likes film again.
Sure, AE is faster to measure the exposure and keep the settings (only a locking button is needed) but that is exactly the pitfall for me... Without having the hold-button pressed (which I would forget to do when I have to take a photo very fast, within parts of a second) and suddenly facing a backlight situation for example, the AE will change the exposure according to the backlight (with a underexposed subject).
furcafe
Veteran
I shoot in a similar style, only I prefer the Kyocera Contax G2's implementation of AE lock, via an optional switch &/or a focus lock button in addition to the shutter release, to the M7 & Hexar RF's exclusive use of the shutter release. I particularly like the switch option as it enables me to recompose without having to keep my finger on the shutter release (yes, I know I can just use the shutter speed dial, but that takes you right back to using a manual body like an M6). I was disappointed that the Hexar RF didn't offer a switch or AE lock button as it shares so many components w/the G2, but you can't have everything, I suppose . . .
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jke
Well-known
I think it is handy. But it isn't without its limitations. What system is perfect? Candles and light bulbs will easily fool the M7's meter if you aren't paying attention. And Gabor's comments about shooting rapidly in a backlit situation is exactly right. But then you just spin the shutter speed dial off AE to the setting you want and go. And a hand held meter is always a good idea for tricky lighting situations - something with a button you push and get an instant readout, not one with dials and gauges that are about as easy as a slide rule to operate. There is no on/off button on your brain. You have to keep it running on its own.
PATB
Established
Thanks for the comments everyone. It seems the owners find the AE very useful. If the two darkrooms in my area do not close, I probably would find a way to fund another film M (probably an M7).