Quick question on lighting

[bmattock]

OK, I'm pretty much convinced that I need to have some lighting for my portrait shoot coming up. I could probably get by with available light in my situation if the weather cooperates, but I don't know how that will work out at the time, so...

Here's the situation. I will be taking a formal portrait of the bride several weeks in front of the wedding. She'll be all dolled up in her wedding kit. We'll use my living room, which due to finances is completely devoid of furniture.

Hardwood floors - shiny. Walls are pale yellow. Ceilings are white and 10 feet tall, textured surface (but not that horrible acoustic popcorn stuff - 80 year old painted plaster stuff). There are windows regularly spaced on two walls - a lot of light in the mornings. Gets very dark in the afternoon and at night, windows face east and south. The room is long and narrow - 32 feet long by maybe 15 wide. At the narrow end of the room, a brick fireplace painted white, decorated with candles and clocks and stuff. Very nice antiquey look.

I will be shooting 6x6 on 120 film - Bronica C2 SLR bodies with Stroboframe flip-flash and Vivitar 285HV on a tripod. Color print film, I guess some B&W. May do some 35mm as well as a backup, since in my small town, I have to mail away the C41 process 120 - no local processors.

I want to put a light behind the model to highlight her hair, and a sidelight to light the side away from the windows. I was thinking of two continuous lights, but I noted that the color temp is not right for outdoor c41 film - I guess I'd have to use a filter? No experience with that.

I could get another couple of flashes - and I *think* I can get something that lets me mount them on a couple of cheap tripods from Walmart, right? I'm a bit confused here.

I would need to trigger them somehow. I understand I can get 'peanut slaves' from Adorama/B&H, etc - I guess they sense the main flash and fire their own light, yes? Or am I wrong about that? Or, I could get long flash sync cords - and some y-splitters of some kind. Would that be better? I know I can do some kind of wireless thing - but the transmitters/receivers seem a bit pricey for a first-time experiment - might be good long-term investments, but not now.

I thought I'd bypass the fancy stuff - barndoors, snoots, gobos, and whatever else for now. Just flash on fairly low power output aimed correctly, nothing fancy. I might be able to rig something to go between the flash in back of the model and the camera so I don' t get flare, but that's about as fancy as I can imagine.

Oh yes, and I have a Sekonic L-358 meter with an incident light dome and a flash fire/measurement capability. It does not have the optional radio transmitter, but it does have a PC-cord outlet to fire the flash(es).

So that's it. I feel I'm getting close, but I'm still a bit confused on some things.

Any help would be appreciated!

BTW - I will have a couple of opportunities to practice with this to make sure I'm doing it right before the actual shoot - so I won't be doing it cold.

Thanks,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Roman]

One thing missing in your setup is some device to soften the light - a flash aimed directly at the bride will give you very harsh, sharply delineated shadows, and if you use multiple flashes, you will have multiple shadows, which might look a bit weird. If you don't want to get a flash umbrella, you might try bouncing the flash, e.g. off a large piece of white cardboard or styrofoam, or you might try shooting through some white material, e.g. some linen tackered to a frame; at the very least, try to soften the flash with one of those minisoftboxes, or with a paper handkerchief taped over it. Just try to make the source of light larger - remember: the larger the lightsource, and the closer to the person, the softer the light will be!
About synching the flashes: both methods (slave cells and cords) will work, just look around what you can get easier; I have a contraption made by Hama that can be screwed onto a tripod, has a built in slave cell and 3 flash-cord plugs, three regular flash sockets that allow mounting three flashes in a kind of inverted 'T' configuration, and best of all, a collar for mounting a flash umbrella (I used a regular white umbrella - the one you use in the rain - with sawed of handle, until I got a 'real' flash umbrella); I think those are made by other companies, too, with a tripod, said umbrella (the larger the better), three Vivitars (or any other kind of flash) and a few synchcords that would be a quite useable set-up (a friend of mine shot a book cover with that, with me doing the lighting for him).
One more hint about lighting: don't overdo the side-lighting for a 'conventional-type' portrait - what works best is the main light placed somewhere around 30 to 45° (at most) off the axis between photographer and subject, slightly above eyelevel (not too high or you'll get dark eye-sockets). You migh also experiment with a few shots both wide short lighting (light positioned on side of face turned away from camera - better for broad faces), and broad lighting (light place on side of face facing toward camera - better fo thin faces).

Roman

 

[Todd.Hanz]

Sounds like you have thought this out. I used to do weddings, bridal portraits and engagments (too busy now). If you do a good job everyone will want to use you, if not.........

My suggestions:
*I suggest shooting outdoors and using fill light/ reflectors, weather permitting, it would be far more cost effective and less headache inducing (unless you're going to drop a thousand or three on a good lighting kit and backdrops, save yourself the hassles). You can make reflectors from any material that reflects light, white or silver, I have used shower panels made of masonite from home depot, they work great and come in anysize you want to cut them !

* If you do choose indoor portraits lighting is important, lighting ratios will help you create a beautiful portrait. (ie. f8 for the main light, -1 stop for the fill light, +2 stops for the hair light........... see where I'm going? Can you rent lighting equipment?


* I like to keep indoor portraits simple, white or black backround. You can do it inexpensively by using common materials (ie. muslin sheets or solid material from a cloth store, doubled in thickness to prevent light from behind, or roll paper). Below is an example of a couple I did using 12' wide muslin from a cloth store and the same shower panels (masonite finished white on one side) for the floor, they were expecting thier first baby...

* The other one is a shot taken against a pc. of black muslin from a cloth store, both were done with studio strobes, umbrellas, snoots, softboxes, etc. You can save money on somethings but studio lighting isn't one of them IMHO

Whatever you do, keep us posted and good luck!

Todd

 

[jlw]

Wireless slave units are the way to go, rather than sync cord splitters. The problem with using cords is that unless all your flash units are identical, you'll get unreliable firing because of electrical differences in their trigger circuits. The slave units solve this problem and are inexpensive. If you're using hot-shot flashes, I suggest getting slave units that have a hot shoe and a tripod socket rather than the tiny 'peanut' units -- this will solve both your sync and mounting problems simultaneously.

 

[bmattock]

Roman,

Thanks for the advice! OK, I have a Sto-Fen Omni-Bounce unit for my Vivitar 285HV - will this work to some limited extent? I can see using some kind of soft-box (improvised or otherwise) to soften the light. Might investigate the umbrella thing (see comments below).

I will look at the Hama thing you mentioned!

Thanks!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

One thing missing in your setup is some device to soften the light - a flash aimed directly at the bride will give you very harsh, sharply delineated shadows, and if you use multiple flashes, you will have multiple shadows, which might look a bit weird. If you don't want to get a flash umbrella, you might try bouncing the flash, e.g. off a large piece of white cardboard or styrofoam, or you might try shooting through some white material, e.g. some linen tackered to a frame; at the very least, try to soften the flash with one of those minisoftboxes, or with a paper handkerchief taped over it. Just try to make the source of light larger - remember: the larger the lightsource, and the closer to the person, the softer the light will be!
About synching the flashes: both methods (slave cells and cords) will work, just look around what you can get easier; I have a contraption made by Hama that can be screwed onto a tripod, has a built in slave cell and 3 flash-cord plugs, three regular flash sockets that allow mounting three flashes in a kind of inverted 'T' configuration, and best of all, a collar for mounting a flash umbrella (I used a regular white umbrella - the one you use in the rain - with sawed of handle, until I got a 'real' flash umbrella); I think those are made by other companies, too, with a tripod, said umbrella (the larger the better), three Vivitars (or any other kind of flash) and a few synchcords that would be a quite useable set-up (a friend of mine shot a book cover with that, with me doing the lighting for him).
One more hint about lighting: don't overdo the side-lighting for a 'conventional-type' portrait - what works best is the main light placed somewhere around 30 to 45° (at most) off the axis between photographer and subject, slightly above eyelevel (not too high or you'll get dark eye-sockets). You migh also experiment with a few shots both wide short lighting (light positioned on side of face turned away from camera - better for broad faces), and broad lighting (light place on side of face facing toward camera - better fo thin faces).

Roman

 

[bmattock]

Sounds like you have thought this out. I used to do weddings, bridal portraits and engagments (too busy now). If you do a good job everyone will want to use you, if not.........

I know what you mean - I'm not sure I *want* everyone coming to me for photos! LOL! But I want to do a good job...so...

My suggestions:
*I suggest shooting outdoors and using fill light/ reflectors, weather permitting, it would be far more cost effective and less headache inducing (unless you're going to drop a thousand or three on a good lighting kit and backdrops, save yourself the hassles). You can make reflectors from any material that reflects light, white or silver, I have used shower panels made of masonite from home depot, they work great and come in anysize you want to cut them !

May not be able to shoot outdoors. It is still kinda wintery here - nothing greening up too much yet. A pity, we have a lovely Rose Garden that belongs to the city, but it is just pointy sticks at the moment.

I'll work on the reflector situation!

* If you do choose indoor portraits lighting is important, lighting ratios will help you create a beautiful portrait. (ie. f8 for the main light, -1 stop for the fill light, +2 stops for the hair light........... see where I'm going? Can you rent lighting equipment?

Check on the lighting ratios - but no on the renting equipment. I'm in Wilson, NC - town of 40,000 with not even a camera store like Wolfe Photo, let alone a real pro shop. Nearest city is Raleigh - 200,000 and a couple of stores that cater to the digerati.

* I like to keep indoor portraits simple, white or black backround. You can do it inexpensively by using common materials (ie. muslin sheets or solid material from a cloth store, doubled in thickness to prevent light from behind, or roll paper). Below is an example of a couple I did using 12' wide muslin from a cloth store and the same shower panels (masonite finished white on one side) for the floor, they were expecting thier first baby...

Excellent, thank you! My wife is looking into muslin cloth to hang up.

* The other one is a shot taken against a pc. of black muslin from a cloth store, both were done with studio strobes, umbrellas, snoots, softboxes, etc. You can save money on somethings but studio lighting isn't one of them IMHO

Fair enough.

Whatever you do, keep us posted and good luck!

Definitely - don't I always? GRIN Sometimes more than anyone cares to hear about...

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

Wireless slave units are the way to go, rather than sync cord splitters. The problem with using cords is that unless all your flash units are identical, you'll get unreliable firing because of electrical differences in their trigger circuits. The slave units solve this problem and are inexpensive. If you're using hot-shot flashes, I suggest getting slave units that have a hot shoe and a tripod socket rather than the tiny 'peanut' units -- this will solve both your sync and mounting problems simultaneously.

OK, good information thank you! Can you give me some specific brand/model recommendations? Just what you like or what you'd recommend - hopefully not really expensive (hehehe).

See, that's what I didn't know about the peanut slaves. Nobody really explains this stuff, though. I have two books on portrait photography and one on lighting, and none of them explain the little stuff - they assume ever buddy knows it!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Roman]

Bill,
just found a link to that Hama thingy (Synchromat Studio):

http://www.fotomayr.de/CGI-BIN/webkat98.exe?002805.HTM&WA=EUR-WEBKAT98

you can see the slave cell, and the three brackets for the flashes.

Roman

 

[Roman]

PS: Googling for 'Hama Synchromat Studio' just leads to German sources, so it might be called differently in the US (and I guess there are other manufacturers of similar devices, as well).
Roman

 

[Pherdinand]

Quick question, yeay right How are the long ones then?
[Sorry' can't help with the question itself. I hate flash.]

 

[FrankS]

Bill,

You could try to do it that way, OR you could try natural light, 400 speed film, slow shutter speed, wide aperture.

KISS

I can't help but feel that the results with natural light would be more attractive, but that's a personal matter of taste and style.

Good luck! We would love to see the results posted here.

 

[bmattock]

PS: Googling for 'Hama Synchromat Studio' just leads to German sources, so it might be called differently in the US (and I guess there are other manufacturers of similar devices, as well).
Roman

This is not as complex-looking, but how about this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=163363&is=REG

Here's a weird little booger:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=89996&is=REG

What do you think of something like this?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=246867&is=REG

Seems to be a strobe (AC), a slave, and has a synch cord too. Or maybe I'm reading it wrong. I'm so confused!

Thanks,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Roman]

This is not as complex-looking, but how about this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=163363&is=REG

Here's a weird little booger:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=89996&is=REG

What do you think of something like this?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=246867&is=REG

Seems to be a strobe (AC), a slave, and has a synch cord too. Or maybe I'm reading it wrong. I'm so confused!

Thanks,

Bill Mattocks

I have one of those from your first link - that's just the slave trigger, can be mounted on a tripod, but does not have anything to hold an umbrella.

The second one is just a connector to trigger three flashes from one camera.

I have also got something similar to that lamp in your third link (but with a regular screw-in socket) - actually, that's quite a good idea, since you don't have any slave triggers yet, anyway, and these have them built-in. Only downsides: once the flash tube is burned-out, you can't replace it, and have to throw the whole thing away; and you can't reduce flash-power with those (like you could with a Vivitar 285, or a 283 with VP-1 module, or higher-level Metz) - you'll have to move the whole set-up closer or farther away from the subject to change lighting. Two of those might be quite sufficient (esp. w/ 400 ASA film), in combination with some screen or umbrella to soften the light.

Roman

 

[bmattock]

Cool! I'm looking at this as well:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=SPMPK&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku=63896

Seems to be lower-powered than the one we just talked about, but it is the whole kit. I noted that the SP-100 has the ability to attach an accessory softbox as well. I take your meaning about not being able to dial down the power. Naturally, SP-Systems seems to have a higher power (and price) unit that allows you to dial the power up and down. Hmmm.

Now of course, I'm getting into the range of lower-priced kits that you see in Shutterbug magazine. Man, this is frustrating stuff!

Thanks for all your help!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

KEH - JTL Basic Kit w/umbrella

JTL Slave to go with light unit above? I dunno...

Smith-Victor Basic AC Strobe Kit

Sorry to keep pestering you guys, but I really appreciate the info!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

Bill,

You could try to do it that way, OR you could try natural light, 400 speed film, slow shutter speed, wide aperture.

KISS

I can't help but feel that the results with natural light would be more attractive, but that's a personal matter of taste and style.

Good luck! We would love to see the results posted here.

Frank,

Sorry! I almost missed your comments - my bad! I *do* intend to do some natural light without flash - but I can't count on the sun being my friend that day. If the sun cooperates, I'll go along with the gag - if not, I need to have something lined up just in case. And even if the sun cooperates, I'll still do some flash shots for CYA.

Like you, I'm a big fan of that big ball of nukes in the sky.

Thanks!

Bill Mattocks

 

[Wayne R. Scott]

Bill,

Here is a great site for answering some of your lighting questions.

http://lightingmagic.com/

He has a Q&A section that will steer you in the right direction. Plus, if you e-mail him with a question that he has not already covered he will answer you, may take a few days as he is busy, but Scott Smith is a nice guy.

Wayne

 

[Wayne R. Scott]

Bill,

I am a big fan of natural light and the use of reflectors. The way I look at it, the natural light has already travelled 93 million miles to get here, it surely can travel a few more feet with the aid of various reflectors. What you see is what you get also with natural light and the price is reasonable.

I have attached one of my feeble attempts at a window light portrait of a bride.

Wayne

 

[bmattock]

Bill,

I am a big fan of natural light and the use of reflectors. The way I look at it, the natural light has already travelled 93 million miles to get here, it surely can travel a few more feet with the aid of various reflectors. What you see is what you get also with natural light and the price is reasonable.

I have attached one of my feeble attempts at a window light portrait of a bride.

Wayne

Wayne,

You won't get any argument from me on natural light! I can only repeat that I don't really have a choice if the weather does not cooperate on the day of the shoot. No window light means no good portrait if that's all I have to fall back on. Anyway, I will be taking photos with available light, bounced, and with artificial light flashed - we'll go with whatever comes out better.

It's like travel. I prefer trains, but my former job required that I take planes. Gotta do whatcha gotta do.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

Bill,

Here is a great site for answering some of your lighting questions.

http://lightingmagic.com/

He has a Q&A section that will steer you in the right direction. Plus, if you e-mail him with a question that he has not already covered he will answer you, may take a few days as he is busy, but Scott Smith is a nice guy.

Wayne

Wayne,

Awesome website - thank you! That answered a lot of my questions right there.

Thanks!

Bill