squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Just a quick question for R-D1 users. Does the R-D1 seem to underexpose by about 1EV, in your experience, when you shoot RAW in AE mode? My R-D1 pics are always too dark. For a while I just sort of let this happen, for fear of blown highlights, but now I'm going to keep the EV set to +1 and see where it gets me.
EDIT: same goes for jpeg, actually, except that jpegs seem to be perhaps 1/3-stop brighter.
EDIT: same goes for jpeg, actually, except that jpegs seem to be perhaps 1/3-stop brighter.
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f16sunshine
Moderator
Sometimes with wides. Other than that it's been pretty good with a 35, 50, or 85 mounted. Generally I stay at 0 in ae unless in low light. Then I cheat down a stop to get one more stop on the shutter. Mine is the original rd1 model. Is the rear of your lens shading the meter diode?
cfritze
Established
Yes, consistently for me regardless of lens. I've routinely got +2/3 or +1EV dialed in. Should probably be +1 all the time, but as this is a recent discovery for me (couple of weeks) I'm still a little shy about blowing out highlights. The LCD display on the R-D1 has a very conservative overexposure warning.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
I almost always use a 28--I should try it out with my 50's and 90. I also have the original version.
sirius
Well-known
They did it on purpose to safeguard the highlights. I remember reading that in an Epson publication. I find it does a fine job outside, but that I have to dial-up the exposure at night or indoors as an underexposed higher ISO picture can produce some very ugly grain and with bring out the magenta (the RD-1 also suffers from magenta cast like the M8, but not so pronounced).
Happy clicks...
(Magenta)
(Not so nice grain)
Happy clicks...
(Magenta)
(Not so nice grain)
Attachments
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
The Pentax K20D is obsessively highlight-safe as well, but the new K-7 is much more willing to risk them. The latter is more to my liking, I'm discovering. I am usually much more interested in shadow detail than clear highlights...
Anyway, glad it isn't just my camera. +1 should do me well.
Anyway, glad it isn't just my camera. +1 should do me well.
MCTuomey
Veteran
My experience was the same. And it was not consistent, so that EC wasn't really effective. I often had to check the histogram repeatedly or just resort to an external meter, more often the latter. For me, just when I wanted a meter to work well (say, mixed indoor lighting), the R-D1's meter would befuddle me.
If it's true that Epson built in a highlights cushion, I would say it functions inconsistently. Unnecessary, imho, when you have a histogram.
24mgdriver
Michael A. Bender
something else with the automatic withe balance, when you shoot RAW.
in my experience, there are some curious differences, for example: I shoot outdoor and then the WB must be around 5600 K , than later Lightroom 2 says and shows the RAW completely different at 3600 K, so it doesent matter, i could correct it, but why did the R-D1 did it ? i must check the jpg now..
in my experience, there are some curious differences, for example: I shoot outdoor and then the WB must be around 5600 K , than later Lightroom 2 says and shows the RAW completely different at 3600 K, so it doesent matter, i could correct it, but why did the R-D1 did it ? i must check the jpg now..
kermaier
Well-known
My R-D1 does the same with AE metering. However, I've also noticed that when I shoot RAW+JPEG, the small JPEG embedded in the RAW file (which is the one displayed on the camera's LCD) is much brighter and has nicer colors than the large JPEG the camera generates. Anyone know what's up with that?
::Ari
::Ari
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
I have noticed that, too, and have absolutely no idea.
AhShun
Member
I used to have ISO640 (+1/3EV) and ISO1000 (+2/3EV) instead of 800 and 1600.
ampguy
Veteran
I have an original RD1 and haven't noticed this, I shoot with EV at 0 or -1/3 usually, and compensate for backlight by aiming away from the lights and holding it.
I'll compare my RD1 with M8 and M6, and digicams and report back.
I'll compare my RD1 with M8 and M6, and digicams and report back.
HenryN
Member
There is nothing wrong with your RD-1. The camera originally came out around 2004 and the prevailing thought at the time was to expose to protect the highlights. My Nikon D100 and D70 exposed the same way.
Today's sensors have better dynamic range and the competition to be the low noise camera/sensor champion have now reversed this trend. My current Nikon D300 exposes to the right, sometimes to my dismay, and now I dial in negative compensation regularly with the D300.
By the way, it has been long rumored that the Epson RD-1 and the Nikon D70/D100 shared the same Sony sensor.
Henry
Today's sensors have better dynamic range and the competition to be the low noise camera/sensor champion have now reversed this trend. My current Nikon D300 exposes to the right, sometimes to my dismay, and now I dial in negative compensation regularly with the D300.
By the way, it has been long rumored that the Epson RD-1 and the Nikon D70/D100 shared the same Sony sensor.
Henry
Sam N
Well-known
It's no rumor Henry, the R-D1 and D100 use the same sensor.
Anyway, the R-D1's meter is pretty simplistic compared to that of any modern DSLR. It's also a bit off-centered in terms of its metering pattern. I often find myself dialing in exposure compensation, but it doesn't really feel like it gets in the way of usability. The RAW files take post-processing very well.
Anyway, the R-D1's meter is pretty simplistic compared to that of any modern DSLR. It's also a bit off-centered in terms of its metering pattern. I often find myself dialing in exposure compensation, but it doesn't really feel like it gets in the way of usability. The RAW files take post-processing very well.
festivegray
Newbie
It's long been a source of annoyance to me that the image I see in the camera's LCD is different from the Large Jpeg and even the out-of-camera RAW image when its opened in Epson Photo RAW. Yes the colors DO look better to my eye. Does anyone know why that is and if there's any way to extract that image?
I've learned to treat the RD-1's exposure meter like a very young child. It can do the job but you have to spell things out for it a bit. Normal daylight scenes are fine, but the minute I'm shooting vaguely towards the sun, am on the beach, indoors or when the light is low, I have to dial at least a +1 exposure correction. My VC 15mm underexposes significantly but I normally leave it be and adjust in Photo RAW as necessary because I've actually grown to like the darkened edges of the frame
festivegray
Newbie
Yea I noticed that too about the jpeg embeded in the RAW image
Yea I noticed that too about the jpeg embeded in the RAW image
I've learned to treat the RD-1's exposure meter like a very young child. It can do the job but you have to spell things out for it a bit. Normal daylight scenes are fine, but the minute I'm shooting vaguely towards the sun, am on the beach, indoors or when the light is low, I have to dial at least a +1 exposure correction. My VC 15mm underexposes significantly but I normally leave it be and adjust in Photo RAW as necessary because I've actually grown to like the darkened edges of the frame
Yea I noticed that too about the jpeg embeded in the RAW image
It's long been a source of annoyance to me that the image I see in the camera's LCD is different from the Large Jpeg and even the out-of-camera RAW image when its opened in Epson Photo RAW. Yes the colors DO look better to my eye. Does anyone know why that is and if there's any way to extract that image?
I've learned to treat the RD-1's exposure meter like a very young child. It can do the job but you have to spell things out for it a bit. Normal daylight scenes are fine, but the minute I'm shooting vaguely towards the sun, am on the beach, indoors or when the light is low, I have to dial at least a +1 exposure correction. My VC 15mm underexposes significantly but I normally leave it be and adjust in Photo RAW as necessary because I've actually grown to like the darkened edges of the frame
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
If you consider the LCD screen to be just another monitor, albeit one that you can't calibrate, you'll get an idea of why the in-camera preview image always looks different. Personally, unless I am shooting B&W jpeg, I consider post processing R-D1 RAW files to be compulsory, just like developing and scanning film. It's actually one of the things I like about the camera, to be honest--the process. It can be irksome getting it just right, though.
kermaier
Well-known
I get that about monitor differences, but I'm talking about pulling both the RAW file and the large JPEG into PS Elements (which I assume is displaying the RAW file's embedded JPEG) and looking at the two side-by side. There's a real difference.
ampguy
Veteran
Here are my results shooting a white wall from 5 feet away with controlled lighting:
RD1 was at EV 0, ISO 200, M8 was at EV 0, ISO 160, M6 was at ISO 200, adjusted shutter to get both arrows on (see notes for this). Lens used was CV 40/1.4.
@ 1.4, all cameras gave 1/125, M6 had the R arrow a tad brighter.
@ 2 RD1 and M8 gave 1/60, M6 gave 1/125 with L arrow a tad brighter
@ 4 RD1 and M8 gave 1/15, M6 gave 1/30 (arrows evenly lit)
@ 8 RD1 and M8 gave 1/4, M6 gave 1/8
So for my RD1, if it underexposes at all at EV0, it's only by about 1/3rd stop, in this particular environment.
Note: previous RD1 owner sent the camera to Steve Chiu for overhaul/CLA, maybe he adjusted it??
RD1 was at EV 0, ISO 200, M8 was at EV 0, ISO 160, M6 was at ISO 200, adjusted shutter to get both arrows on (see notes for this). Lens used was CV 40/1.4.
@ 1.4, all cameras gave 1/125, M6 had the R arrow a tad brighter.
@ 2 RD1 and M8 gave 1/60, M6 gave 1/125 with L arrow a tad brighter
@ 4 RD1 and M8 gave 1/15, M6 gave 1/30 (arrows evenly lit)
@ 8 RD1 and M8 gave 1/4, M6 gave 1/8
So for my RD1, if it underexposes at all at EV0, it's only by about 1/3rd stop, in this particular environment.
Note: previous RD1 owner sent the camera to Steve Chiu for overhaul/CLA, maybe he adjusted it??
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kermaier
Well-known
Might also be worth noting that I think the R-D1 meter is not strictly center-weighted, but more like bottom-left-weighted.