R-D1 vs. M8

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sgy1962

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Other then cost and current availability, are there any advantages the R-D1 has over the M8?

I must admit I do like the analog controls of the R-D1 better.
 
1:1 viewfinder (not everybody cares about this, but some of us consider it a huge plus as it allows viewing through the camera with both eyes open); folding LCD; availability of third-party batteries (although the use of these is somewhat controversial.) Some consider the manual shutter wind an advantage.
 
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RD-1 Advantages:

1) 1-1 Viewfinder
2) Folding LCD
3) Analogue controls and indicators, the M8 is and probably feels much more "digital"
4) mechanical shutter cocking

M8 Advantages:

1) Better picture quality, how much is still under scrutiny.
2) Longevity, Leica is likely to support and repair the M8 for 20+ years, with the RD-1 I am not aware of any repair service after the warranty has expired.
3) Longer baselenght rangefinder.
4) Coding on lenses to have the focal lenght used in the exif data.
5) Quality control

I was about to add that the M8 will retain better value over time, but even the RD-1 seems to hold its value quite well.

Overall I think the M8 will be a better camera ( expecially for the support you will get and the qulity control that has been proven quite poor for the RD-1).

In the end it is up to each individual to decide if the M8 is worth twice the cost of a new RD-1s or not, ideally you want to handle both and see for yourself.

Just my 2c
 
sgy1962 said:
Other then cost and current availability, are there any advantages the R-D1 has over the M8?

I must admit I do like the analog controls of the R-D1 better.
Click to expand...

I can't compare it to the M8 but what I like about the R-D1 is the 1:1 finder, the rewind lever, the ability to switch from medium to fine to raw with the swivel lever, and the fact that you can flip the screen . I also like the black and white filter function...
 
The fold-away LCD and that little clock thing (the one that looks like it came off a 1936 Alvis)
I bet they’ll be the secret envy of most M8 owners
 
I think the key advantages of the M8 are quality control and future support for repairs. IMHO the lack of maual controls, as in the RD-1, will make the experience more digital than the RD-1 currently does and less intuitive. I seldom look at the LCD of my RD-1 during shooting and I only occasionally chimp during breaks. It makes the whole process much more like shooting with my M6 - just don't need to get out the DDX:). I'm sure the M8 will be a wonderful camera but it would be wrong to suggest that image quality will be better than the RD-1 until some images are available. If it is better than the RD-1, then the images are going to be very special because the RD-1 does a very good job.
 
Going from a 6 megapixel camera to 10, is quite a jump. The M8 files will hold more detail I suspect then the RD-1. At least from my experience in going from the Canon 10D to the 5D. 6 mgpxls to 8 is not a great jump and there would be very little advantage marginally. Going from 6 to 10 is quite a substantial in terms of information and detail that is captured. The Kodak sensor that is in the M8 has a great reputation. Lets hope the M8's software can compare.
 
Being able to change the ISO by feel.

Manually changing the framelines is an advantage in some cases. (But framelines that change automatically would be an advantage at other time.)
 
All in all the M8 is a big disappointment for me.

The R-D1 is such a better external implementation of a digital rangefinder.

It completely handles like a film camera. Stow the LCD in the flipped around position and for all practical purpose it is a film camera -- until it is time to "process" the images.

It is thinner and has a nice tacile grip. The M8's slick covering and lack of any hand purchase is a recipe for dropped and broken cameras.

All the other statements about the M8's higher build quality, higher resolving power, availability of service, and lower crop factor almost certainly make the M8 a better investment.

But I look at my R-D1 and think that it is very close to the camera that I wish Leica had made.

Alas...
 
AusDLK said:
All in all the M8 is a big disappointment for me.

The R-D1 is such a better external implementation of a digital rangefinder.

It completely handles like a film camera. Stow the LCD in the flipped around position and for all practical purpose it is a film camera -- until it is time to "process" the images.
Click to expand...

Well, I think the reason I want the M8 is because it is the best digital RF. I think the M7 is a far better film RF camera. Moral: If the reason for buying a camera is that it is like a good film RF camera- buy that. If the reason for buying a camera is that you want a digital camera, a RF and the best, buy a M8.
If you want to buy a very good- albeit not the best- digital camera and have some partly unpractical but very sympathetic nostalgia thrown in - Buy a RD1.

I wonder however how long RD1 stocks will last. And what will happen to technical support when they run out. After that it appears the M8 will be the only game in town, which is a bit of a pity and not good for RF photography.
 
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"If the reason for buying a camera is that you want a digital camera, a RF and the best, buy a M8."

Certainly the M8 will deliver the best picture quality, and the RF will be of better quality and more reliable. But in terms of usabilty - which also affects how good the pictures are - the Epson has some real advantages. You can adjust ISO immediatley, and always see what it is. The analogue controls are a real plus. It's been proven that humans interact with the world in an analogue way; your brain will perceive the time much more quickly with an analogue watch, than with one that has a digital display. That's why today's digital watches have an analogue display.

Calll me contrary, but I waited to find out more about the M8 before buying an R-D1. The M8 is hopefully as good as it needs to be, which is good news for all of us. But the R-D1 is arguably a more innovative design - and without it, I doubt we'd have seen the M8 quite as quickly.

Of course you're right, the M8 will be around for longer than the R-D1. And the R-D1 is in some respects a failure. But it is nonetheless a great camera - certainly the pro who lives next door to me couldn't believe its size and usability, and the quality and size of the lenses compared to his hulking great Nikon DSLRs... apart from one minor flaw... he couldn't stand the RF focusing.
 
Well Dave, if you don't like the M8, don't buy one. I'm delighted with the way the M8 has turned out so far. True, there's more to know about the M8 image quality but I expect the M8 to meet my highest expectations. I'm buying two.
 
sgy1962 said:
How do you adjust iso on the R-D1?
Click to expand...

Hi Sgy,
You adjust it by pulling up the shutter speed dial and rotating it to the appropriate iso 200,400,800,1600...just like some of the old manual SLR's and the Bessa R3A.
 
Dimension wise, how does the R-D1 feel compared to a film M? I've read the dimensions, but I have a hard time visualizing what the numbers mean.

Will an eyeglass wearer be able to see the framlines which correspond to the 35mm and 50mm focal lengths? According to the article in LFI, the 28mm framelines probably can't bee seen.

Can a 90mm Elmarit be used on the R-D1, and if so, how would you frame? I beleive that would give a FOV of a 140mm lens. Same question for a 75mm lens?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm new to digital (bet you couldn't tell), but have been a rangefinder user for more then a decade. I'm thinking that the R-D1 may be a better investment for a newbie who doesn't know whether digital is the way to go for them; only needs quality up to 8x10; and really doesn't like electronics or being faced with a lot of choices. Thanks.
 
fgianni said:
RD-1 Advantages:

1) 1-1 Viewfinder
2) Folding LCD
3) Analogue controls and indicators, the M8 is and probably feels much more "digital"
4) mechanical shutter cocking

M8 Advantages:

1) Better picture quality, how much is still under scrutiny.
2) Longevity, Leica is likely to support and repair the M8 for 20+ years, with the RD-1 I am not aware of any repair service after the warranty has expired.
3) Longer baselenght rangefinder.
4) Coding on lenses to have the focal lenght used in the exif data.
5) Quality control

I was about to add that the M8 will retain better value over time, but even the RD-1 seems to hold its value quite well.

Overall I think the M8 will be a better camera ( expecially for the support you will get and the qulity control that has been proven quite poor for the RD-1).

In the end it is up to each individual to decide if the M8 is worth twice the cost of a new RD-1s or not, ideally you want to handle both and see for yourself.

Just my 2c
Click to expand...

I don't think it could be better said...
 
sgy1962 said:
Dimension wise, how does the R-D1 feel compared to a film M? I've read the dimensions, but I have a hard time visualizing what the numbers mean.

Will an eyeglass wearer be able to see the framlines which correspond to the 35mm and 50mm focal lengths? According to the article in LFI, the 28mm framelines probably can't bee seen.

Can a 90mm Elmarit be used on the R-D1, and if so, how would you frame? I beleive that would give a FOV of a 140mm lens. Same question for a 75mm lens?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm new to digital (bet you couldn't tell), but have been a rangefinder user for more then a decade. I'm thinking that the R-D1 may be a better investment for a newbie who doesn't know whether digital is the way to go for them; only needs quality up to 8x10; and really doesn't like electronics or being faced with a lot of choices. Thanks.
Click to expand...

The R-D1 is basically a Bessa R2 with a magnesium body. I have a Bessa R3A and it feels similiar except there is much more heft and weight to it. It doesn't feel anything like an M6. I don't think it is as solid as the M8 will be. I've heard of people focusing a 135 on an R-D1. You'll just have to estimate inside the frame lines with lenses longer than 50. With glasses it will be difficult to see the 28mm(42mm) framelines. A 28 uses the whole viewfinder as a frame...
 
Since I haven't handled an M8 I have no idea how it stacks up. But I do know from owning one that the R-D1 is a really great camera, and its ergonomics are absolutely spot on, it's the most usable digital camera I have ever shot with. The M8 will be better supported for sure, but I'm in no rush to buy one.

Ian
 
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